Comments on: That Hideous Strength http://ceruleansanctum.com/2004/09/that-hideous-strength.html Looking for the 1st century Church in 21st century America Tue, 02 Dec 2008 13:04:35 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.5 By: Penny Chandler http://ceruleansanctum.com/2004/09/that-hideous-strength.html#comment-2286 Penny Chandler Tue, 14 Feb 2006 01:03:00 +0000 http://ceruleansanctum.com/?p=240#comment-2286 in response to your response to jeremy on 9.26.04, Jesus told the disciples that they would be miraculous people, not us. The Gospels note what He said to His disciples, and I think we take His words out of context when we take what He said to the Twelve and assume that He meant it for us too. The disciples were going on to set the world on fire with a brand-new faith and they needed some signs and miracles to set this new faith apart in the world. Nowhere in passages addressed to new-covenant Gentile Christians, like most of us, do I remember reading that we are supposed to be miraculous people. If God wants us to be, then He certainly brings it about, but I don't think we should arbitrarily say that about ourselves. jbjust my thoughts. in response to your response to jeremy on 9.26.04, Jesus told the disciples that they would be miraculous people, not us. The Gospels note what He said to His disciples, and I think we take His words out of context when we take what He said to the Twelve and assume that He meant it for us too. The disciples were going on to set the world on fire with a brand-new faith and they needed some signs and miracles to set this new faith apart in the world. Nowhere in passages addressed to new-covenant Gentile Christians, like most of us, do I remember reading that we are supposed to be miraculous people. If God wants us to be, then He certainly brings it about, but I don’t think we should arbitrarily say that about ourselves. jbjust my thoughts.

]]> By: Randy http://ceruleansanctum.com/2004/09/that-hideous-strength.html#comment-2285 Randy Wed, 01 Dec 2004 20:34:00 +0000 http://ceruleansanctum.com/?p=240#comment-2285 No fair diggin up bones...I know, but a friend forwareded your post to a discussion group I'm in and I posted a response on my blog. Thanks for the empahsis on the Holy Spirit even if I have a different take on the emergent thing. www.thehouseblog.com No fair diggin up bones…I know, but a friend forwareded your post to a discussion group I’m in and I posted a response on my blog. Thanks for the empahsis on the Holy Spirit even if I have a different take on the emergent thing.

http://www.thehouseblog.com

]]> By: Dan Edelen http://ceruleansanctum.com/2004/09/that-hideous-strength.html#comment-2284 Dan Edelen Mon, 25 Oct 2004 02:34:00 +0000 http://ceruleansanctum.com/?p=240#comment-2284 "Yikes" wrote: <I>some of your comments about the "you are wrong. every last one of you" about the emergent/emerging church are so incredibly wrong! have you even read any of those books? if you have, you would find that what you are saying makes no sense. you are getting comments here all agreeing with you, but i doubt they have actually read the books or they wouldn't be agreeing.</I>Yes, I have read a number of books by Emergent leaders in the last year (such as <I>The Connecting Church, The Search to Belong, The Present Future, Making Room for Life</I>...) and the one things about that that strikes me again and again is that you can implement every idea they have and never need the Holy Spirit. If our churches continue to function---as I noted in my post---without the Holy Spirit, but by sociology texts, demographic polls, and manmade solutions, then we've lost the very mandate we were given at Pentecost. We've ceased to be the Church and have instead become a powerless club of people who "minister" out of our own strength and clever ideas. What distinguishes the Church from the Peace Corps? Or from the Red Cross? Or from the Jehovah's Witnesses? Or from the Kiwanis Club or the Shriners? All of those groups do good things for people, that try to reach out to people to bring them to a place where they find community, but they are not the groups upon which the Holy Spirit was sent to dwell. If Emergent continues to think they can do everything apart from the supernatural power of God, then they are no different from the Peace Corps. They might do great things for people, but they do it from the wrong source of power. “Yikes” wrote:
some of your comments about the “you are wrong. every last one of you” about the emergent/emerging church are so incredibly wrong! have you even read any of those books? if you have, you would find that what you are saying makes no sense. you are getting comments here all agreeing with you, but i doubt they have actually read the books or they wouldn’t be agreeing.Yes, I have read a number of books by Emergent leaders in the last year (such as The Connecting Church, The Search to Belong, The Present Future, Making Room for Life…) and the one things about that that strikes me again and again is that you can implement every idea they have and never need the Holy Spirit. If our churches continue to function—as I noted in my post—without the Holy Spirit, but by sociology texts, demographic polls, and manmade solutions, then we’ve lost the very mandate we were given at Pentecost. We’ve ceased to be the Church and have instead become a powerless club of people who “minister” out of our own strength and clever ideas.

What distinguishes the Church from the Peace Corps? Or from the Red Cross? Or from the Jehovah’s Witnesses? Or from the Kiwanis Club or the Shriners? All of those groups do good things for people, that try to reach out to people to bring them to a place where they find community, but they are not the groups upon which the Holy Spirit was sent to dwell.

If Emergent continues to think they can do everything apart from the supernatural power of God, then they are no different from the Peace Corps. They might do great things for people, but they do it from the wrong source of power.

]]> By: Anonymous http://ceruleansanctum.com/2004/09/that-hideous-strength.html#comment-2283 Anonymous Sun, 24 Oct 2004 09:56:00 +0000 http://ceruleansanctum.com/?p=240#comment-2283 yikes... some of your comments about the "you are wrong. every last one of you" about the emergent/emerging church are so incredibly wrong! have you even read any of those books? if you have, you would find that what you are saying makes no sense. you are getting comments here all agreeing with you, but i doubt they have actually read the books or they wouldn't be agreeing. without knowing you, it seems you must be a frustrated sort of pastor or person afraid of rethinking things and holding on to middle-aged theology and probably a john mcarthur fan without even realizing why. it is sad reading comments like that, and i feel bad for you. oh well. you blog is public, and you say "you are wrong" there are others who will say "you are wrong". jesus is love and that by the love disciples have for one another others will know we are His disciples, and i don't sense too much love from this blog. yikes… some of your comments about the “you are wrong. every last one of you” about the emergent/emerging church are so incredibly wrong! have you even read any of those books? if you have, you would find that what you are saying makes no sense. you are getting comments here all agreeing with you, but i doubt they have actually read the books or they wouldn’t be agreeing.

without knowing you, it seems you must be a frustrated sort of pastor or person afraid of rethinking things and holding on to middle-aged theology and probably a john mcarthur fan without even realizing why. it is sad reading comments like that, and i feel bad for you. oh well. you blog is public, and you say “you are wrong” there are others who will say “you are wrong”. jesus is love and that by the love disciples have for one another others will know we are His disciples, and i don’t sense too much love from this blog.

]]> By: Dan Edelen http://ceruleansanctum.com/2004/09/that-hideous-strength.html#comment-2282 Dan Edelen Sun, 26 Sep 2004 17:56:00 +0000 http://ceruleansanctum.com/?p=240#comment-2282 Jeremy, There is an inner life of the Spirit and an outer life, too. The outer life looks just like what I noted, while the inner life looks just like what you wrote. They are all part of the whole. We are told that we will be miraculous people. Jesus promised we would be. We can say to a mountain to be thrown into the sea and it will be. If that is not miraculous, then what is? Is Jesus simply using hyperbole? No way. We make excuses for not being miraculous people, and that is one of the problems with American churches. Go to any Third World country where revival is breaking out and you will see the miraculous. Our lack of faith and our constant pooh-poohing of the miraculous results in a stagnant church and lots of finger-pointing. And this is what I am talking about. John the Baptist came to prepare the way for the King and the Kingdom. When he lost heart, Jesus said to John's disciples: Go and tell John the things which you hear and see: the blind receive their sight, the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, and the poor have good news preached to them. --- Matt. 11:4-5 That is the Kingdom in operation right there. Now if anyone wishes to debate that the Kingdom of God doesn't consist of those things, then he'll have to take it up with the Lord. Fact is, those things are the normal manifestations of the Kingdom in operation through those who are in the Kingdom. To say otherwise is to believe in a kingdom that is wholly other than the one Jesus instituted. Frankly, I am tired of the small "k" kingdom, particularly when others hold it up as our best model. The Kingdom Jesus talks about has some fire in its belly! We need to get that back, though we never will unless we start thinking differently about this. Don't be satisfied with smoke; ask for the fire! Jeremy,

There is an inner life of the Spirit and an outer life, too. The outer life looks just like what I noted, while the inner life looks just like what you wrote. They are all part of the whole.

We are told that we will be miraculous people. Jesus promised we would be. We can say to a mountain to be thrown into the sea and it will be. If that is not miraculous, then what is? Is Jesus simply using hyperbole? No way.

We make excuses for not being miraculous people, and that is one of the problems with American churches. Go to any Third World country where revival is breaking out and you will see the miraculous. Our lack of faith and our constant pooh-poohing of the miraculous results in a stagnant church and lots of finger-pointing. And this is what I am talking about.

John the Baptist came to prepare the way for the King and the Kingdom. When he lost heart, Jesus said to John’s disciples:

Go and tell John the things which you hear and see:
the blind receive their sight, the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, and the poor have good news preached to them. — Matt. 11:4-5

That is the Kingdom in operation right there. Now if anyone wishes to debate that the Kingdom of God doesn’t consist of those things, then he’ll have to take it up with the Lord. Fact is, those things are the normal manifestations of the Kingdom in operation through those who are in the Kingdom. To say otherwise is to believe in a kingdom that is wholly other than the one Jesus instituted.

Frankly, I am tired of the small “k” kingdom, particularly when others hold it up as our best model. The Kingdom Jesus talks about has some fire in its belly! We need to get that back, though we never will unless we start thinking differently about this. Don’t be satisfied with smoke; ask for the fire!

]]>