Comments on: The Changing Church http://ceruleansanctum.com/2005/08/the-changing-church.html Looking for the 1st century Church in 21st century America Sun, 12 Feb 2012 12:37:15 +0000 hourly 1 By: Davidhttp://ceruleansanctum.com/2005/08/the-changing-church.html#comment-33716 David Fri, 04 Jan 2008 15:09:30 +0000 http://ceruleansanctum.com/?p=103#comment-33716 Dan, I think one of the issues at play in the current fear of methedology lies in the nature of technology and technique. I've been studying this issue and there seems to be a naivette amongst evangelical groups as to the nature of what they are implementing and as to who is pushing these changes. By implementing technique in place of the Holy Spirit one falls into the trap of becoming a magician (by this I mean magician as defined by Giordano Bruno as one who uses images/words to manipulate the "erotic" impulses of a group) As I was looking into the "Great Awakening" in the United States there seems to be alot of political and economic overlap between the movement of the evangelists and the movement of some of the more repressive ideas prevalent in the American conciousness. I am not saying that these people were ill intentioned, I just think that the battle goes deeper than most people are willing to admit. As you said one must be guided by the Holy Spirit rather than opinion or fear, but it seems to me that God often works in spite of the Church rather than with it. Some would say that the current nihilism, relativism and atheism are a direct result of the social changes resultant from the Reformation. Ioan Couliano from the University of Chicago did a pretty excellent analysis (from a secular stance) on this point. With the current move towards globalization the Nations are working very dilligently to push forward agendas that might not be pretty 50-100 years down the line and they are actively using religious organizations to mold the minds of their congregations to support these changes. I don't mean this in a conspiratorial way, it is simply how things work in politics. Not enough in depth analysis is being done by the secular groups or the Church to really assess what the underlying assumptions behind much of the change that is occuring. Dan, I think one of the issues at play in the current fear of methedology lies in the nature of technology and technique. I’ve been studying this issue and there seems to be a naivette amongst evangelical groups as to the nature of what they are implementing and as to who is pushing these changes. By implementing technique in place of the Holy Spirit one falls into the trap of becoming a magician (by this I mean magician as defined by Giordano Bruno as one who uses images/words to manipulate the “erotic” impulses of a group)

As I was looking into the “Great Awakening” in the United States there seems to be alot of political and economic overlap between the movement of the evangelists and the movement of some of the more repressive ideas prevalent in the American conciousness.

I am not saying that these people were ill intentioned, I just think that the battle goes deeper than most people are willing to admit. As you said one must be guided by the Holy Spirit rather than opinion or fear, but it seems to me that God often works in spite of the Church rather than with it.

Some would say that the current nihilism, relativism and atheism are a direct result of the social changes resultant from the Reformation. Ioan Couliano from the University of Chicago did a pretty excellent analysis (from a secular stance) on this point.

With the current move towards globalization the Nations are working very dilligently to push forward agendas that might not be pretty 50-100 years down the line and they are actively using religious organizations to mold the minds of their congregations to support these changes. I don’t mean this in a conspiratorial way, it is simply how things work in politics.

Not enough in depth analysis is being done by the secular groups or the Church to really assess what the underlying assumptions behind much of the change that is occuring.

]]> By: Vickihttp://ceruleansanctum.com/2005/08/the-changing-church.html#comment-588 Vicki Thu, 26 Jan 2006 15:37:00 +0000 http://ceruleansanctum.com/?p=103#comment-588 Excellent post. It's been my concern that churches today are, more and more, "dumbing down" the gospel to attract that seeker crowd we hear so much about. The temptation is to stop feeding meat to the sheep, and just entertain the goats. My heart grieves over the PDL saturation these days since so much of it glosses over the Cross of Christ. It's okay to change the presentation of the gospel, but the gospel must not change! To Rob: Without knowing you, I sense some 'emergence' about you when you ask what exactly IS the gospel? I've been a Christian since 1983, and never have I thought of the gospel as JUST a ticket to heaven. Christ has the power to change lives in the here and now, and it's that resurrection power that I personally need daily just to live in this world. What is all the confusion about the gospel anyway?? I've read Brian McLaren's Mere Orthodoxy, and all I can say is, beware those who tamper with the gospel of Jesus Christ, who plant seeds of confusion, and tickle ears with what folks want to hear. Thanks, Dan, for this informative, truthful blog. I'll be back! Excellent post. It’s been my concern that churches today are, more and more, “dumbing down” the gospel to attract that seeker crowd we hear so much about. The temptation is to stop feeding meat to the sheep, and just entertain the goats. My heart grieves over the PDL saturation these days since so much of it glosses over the Cross of Christ.

It’s okay to change the presentation of the gospel, but the gospel must not change!

To Rob: Without knowing you, I sense some ‘emergence’ about you when you ask what exactly IS the gospel? I’ve been a Christian since 1983, and never have I thought of the gospel as JUST a ticket to heaven. Christ has the power to change lives in the here and now, and it’s that resurrection power that I personally need daily just to live in this world. What is all the confusion about the gospel anyway?? I’ve read Brian McLaren’s Mere Orthodoxy, and all I can say is, beware those who tamper with the gospel of Jesus Christ, who plant seeds of confusion, and tickle ears with what folks want to hear.

Thanks, Dan, for this informative, truthful blog. I’ll be back!

]]> By: Milton Stanleyhttp://ceruleansanctum.com/2005/08/the-changing-church.html#comment-587 Milton Stanley Thu, 01 Sep 2005 12:12:00 +0000 http://ceruleansanctum.com/?p=103#comment-587 Excellent post, Dan. I linked to it at my blog. Peace. Excellent post, Dan. I linked to it at my blog. Peace.

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