Comments on: No “I” in “Church” http://ceruleansanctum.com/2006/04/no-i-in-church.html Looking for the 1st century Church in 21st century America Sat, 10 Jan 2009 02:56:00 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.7 hourly 1 By: Brendt http://ceruleansanctum.com/2006/04/no-i-in-church.html#comment-2202 Brendt Wed, 19 Apr 2006 02:42:00 +0000 http://ceruleansanctum.com/?p=229#comment-2202 "Box Full of Feet" would make a great name for a rock band. ;-) “Box Full of Feet” would make a great name for a rock band. ;-)

]]> By: AlieraKieron http://ceruleansanctum.com/2006/04/no-i-in-church.html#comment-2201 AlieraKieron Thu, 06 Apr 2006 15:41:00 +0000 http://ceruleansanctum.com/?p=229#comment-2201 Dan, I hate to say it, but it's an outgrowth of <I>sola fides</I> and a demonization of "works". I won't, of course, demonize the doctrine itself, but it's yet another case of protestnatism throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Dan,
I hate to say it, but it’s an outgrowth of sola fides and a demonization of “works”. I won’t, of course, demonize the doctrine itself, but it’s yet another case of protestnatism throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

]]> By: mattdeany http://ceruleansanctum.com/2006/04/no-i-in-church.html#comment-2200 mattdeany Wed, 05 Apr 2006 19:16:00 +0000 http://ceruleansanctum.com/?p=229#comment-2200 I think the corporate nature of the church is vital, although not all church teaches or practices it. It has all sorts of applications, even as you say, and will radically affect our faith in many areas. One area that seems particularly close to us individualists hearts is money. If when we give, we give to a man or team at the front, we will have a very different perspective on our responsibility in giving than if we cheerfully and faithfully give it to God, through his body. If we are all individuals, it can be easy to disobey God on the basis of another man's bad behaviour and do what we think best. We will also tend to hold on to it after 'giving'. But if we give to God through his body, we can appeal to God, beyond what we see. The local body can help sometimes, as if it were a bundch of friendly, co-opted individuals. My brother-in-law and sister were helped by their large church in Florida after he left the Navy and found work difficult. Great to be part a rich congregation! But we have found that those family members, even in small British congregations, who were trusting God directly, and relating faithfully to his body, would find some other, previously unknown, part of the body meeting their needs when in trouble. God recognises the Body of Christ in a way most of us don't, beyond the local collection of individuals. The Body of Christ is a broader unity than just a local congregation, and is supernaturally linked by the Head, so participating in Christ's ministry on earth should be broader than just what we see is possible, although it should start there. This recognising the body as something other than a human administration, also means that dealing with corporate sin can be handled not as an argument between individuals or factions in the church, but by appealing to the Head of the Body. As somone who once would fight my corner in my faction with the best of them, I found that as I spoke the truth carefully under God and then submitted to those who sat in 'Moses' seat' (Matt 23:2). God on several occasions has dealt with individual or corporate sin far more effectively than I ever could and far more thoroughly, quite apart from my efforts or words. We recieve what we have faith for, let's believe for a loving spotless Bride, and try to live it, especially as the blessing rests on those who dwell together in unity. I think the corporate nature of the church is vital, although not all church teaches or practices it. It has all sorts of applications, even as you say, and will radically affect our faith in many areas.
One area that seems particularly close to us individualists hearts is money. If when we give, we give to a man or team at the front, we will have a very different perspective on our responsibility in giving than if we cheerfully and faithfully give it to God, through his body. If we are all individuals, it can be easy to disobey God on the basis of another man’s bad behaviour and do what we think best. We will also tend to hold on to it after ‘giving’. But if we give to God through his body, we can appeal to God, beyond what we see.
The local body can help sometimes, as if it were a bundch of friendly, co-opted individuals. My brother-in-law and sister were helped by their large church in Florida after he left the Navy and found work difficult. Great to be part a rich congregation! But we have found that those family members, even in small British congregations, who were trusting God directly, and relating faithfully to his body, would find some other, previously unknown, part of the body meeting their needs when in trouble. God recognises the Body of Christ in a way most of us don’t, beyond the local collection of individuals. The Body of Christ is a broader unity than just a local congregation, and is supernaturally linked by the Head, so participating in Christ’s ministry on earth should be broader than just what we see is possible, although it should start there.
This recognising the body as something other than a human administration, also means that dealing with corporate sin can be handled not as an argument between individuals or factions in the church, but by appealing to the Head of the Body. As somone who once would fight my corner in my faction with the best of them, I found that as I spoke the truth carefully under God and then submitted to those who sat in ‘Moses’ seat’ (Matt 23:2). God on several occasions has dealt with individual or corporate sin far more effectively than I ever could and far more thoroughly, quite apart from my efforts or words.
We recieve what we have faith for, let’s believe for a loving spotless Bride, and try to live it, especially as the blessing rests on those who dwell together in unity.

]]> By: Gaddabout http://ceruleansanctum.com/2006/04/no-i-in-church.html#comment-2199 Gaddabout Wed, 05 Apr 2006 14:42:00 +0000 http://ceruleansanctum.com/?p=229#comment-2199 Dan, You're <I>willing</I> to serve. Maybe God doesn't always present us 100 opportunities a day, but you show up. You in no way exhibit the attitude I mention. Dan,

You’re willing to serve. Maybe God doesn’t always present us 100 opportunities a day, but you show up. You in no way exhibit the attitude I mention.

]]> By: Dan Edelen http://ceruleansanctum.com/2006/04/no-i-in-church.html#comment-2198 Dan Edelen Wed, 05 Apr 2006 04:40:00 +0000 http://ceruleansanctum.com/?p=229#comment-2198 Gaddabout, Francisco, As we've all been Christians a while, we all know the 20/90 rule: 20% of the church members do 90% of the work In light of this, I find it hard to fault people who do just a couple things. They're still doing more than the 80% who just show up on Sundays. Truth be told, by the measure you give here, I'm doing little at my church. I'm on the worship team, I participate in the Men's Breakfasts, and I'm part of a small group (and hosted it once when the regular leaders were out of town.) Being a small church, there aren't a ton of ministry opportunities. Many of the things we do at the church are under the radar (aren't considered "official" ministries), like engaging in some of the things I mention on this blog. Apart from Children's ministries, there aren't a lot of teaching opportunities. Do I have ideas on things we can do? Yes. But our church is literally just getting back on its feet after a series of heartbreakers, so I'm not ramming any ideas down anyone's throat just yet. I wanted to see if we could start some kind of "rite of passage" for teens and it looks like that will happen after talking with our pastor. We'll see how that works out. If 100% of the people in any church did even one or two things, there would not be enough things for them to do (in most churches!) Gaddabout, Francisco,

As we’ve all been Christians a while, we all know the 20/90 rule:

20% of the church members do 90% of the work

In light of this, I find it hard to fault people who do just a couple things. They’re still doing more than the 80% who just show up on Sundays.

Truth be told, by the measure you give here, I’m doing little at my church. I’m on the worship team, I participate in the Men’s Breakfasts, and I’m part of a small group (and hosted it once when the regular leaders were out of town.) Being a small church, there aren’t a ton of ministry opportunities. Many of the things we do at the church are under the radar (aren’t considered “official” ministries), like engaging in some of the things I mention on this blog. Apart from Children’s ministries, there aren’t a lot of teaching opportunities.

Do I have ideas on things we can do? Yes. But our church is literally just getting back on its feet after a series of heartbreakers, so I’m not ramming any ideas down anyone’s throat just yet. I wanted to see if we could start some kind of “rite of passage” for teens and it looks like that will happen after talking with our pastor. We’ll see how that works out.

If 100% of the people in any church did even one or two things, there would not be enough things for them to do (in most churches!)

]]>