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	<title>Comments on: The Passion FOR the Christ&#8212;Yet Another Worship Wars Post</title>
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	<link>http://ceruleansanctum.com/2006/04/passion-for-christ-yet-another-worship.html</link>
	<description>Looking for the 1st century Church in 21st century America</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 16:24:42 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Lin</title>
		<link>http://ceruleansanctum.com/2006/04/passion-for-christ-yet-another-worship.html#comment-3160</link>
		<dc:creator>Lin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Apr 2006 02:40:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ceruleansanctum.com/?p=232#comment-3160</guid>
		<description>Just found your site and am cracking up over this post! As a veteran corporate trainer, I lived in MBTI land for 15 years. I finally quit using it about 7 years ago. Why? Because it is distracting and basically psychobabble mumbo jumbo. (Carl Jung, on which research it is based,  was into some strange occult practices, by the way)

Here are some interesting takes on it that are NOT scientific but anecdotal. Just for fun, we decided to test some of our clients twice. We told them to take the test answering questions based on their work life and then another test based on their home life. The results were astonishing. About the ONLY people who had similar personality traits on both tests were...drum roll...NT's. We tested about 200 people this way. (By even asking the them to do this we placed in their minds they had different personalities at home than at work! See how this stuff works?)

I am distressed to see so many churches using this test for volunteerism and to discover their 'gifts' so to speak. A better plan would be to seek the guidance of the Holy Spirit.  

Anyway, the 'war' over music is somewhat silly but I do see Colson's point. I cringe when church plays songs that do not mention Jesus by name. That is the ONLY reason I am there. And just a quick reading of Psalms, one is amazed at how many times THE NAME is mentioned and glorified!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just found your site and am cracking up over this post! As a veteran corporate trainer, I lived in MBTI land for 15 years. I finally quit using it about 7 years ago. Why? Because it is distracting and basically psychobabble mumbo jumbo. (Carl Jung, on which research it is based,  was into some strange occult practices, by the way)</p>
<p>Here are some interesting takes on it that are NOT scientific but anecdotal. Just for fun, we decided to test some of our clients twice. We told them to take the test answering questions based on their work life and then another test based on their home life. The results were astonishing. About the ONLY people who had similar personality traits on both tests were&#8230;drum roll&#8230;NT&#8217;s. We tested about 200 people this way. (By even asking the them to do this we placed in their minds they had different personalities at home than at work! See how this stuff works?)</p>
<p>I am distressed to see so many churches using this test for volunteerism and to discover their &#8216;gifts&#8217; so to speak. A better plan would be to seek the guidance of the Holy Spirit.  </p>
<p>Anyway, the &#8216;war&#8217; over music is somewhat silly but I do see Colson&#8217;s point. I cringe when church plays songs that do not mention Jesus by name. That is the ONLY reason I am there. And just a quick reading of Psalms, one is amazed at how many times THE NAME is mentioned and glorified!</p>
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		<title>By: Kristie</title>
		<link>http://ceruleansanctum.com/2006/04/passion-for-christ-yet-another-worship.html#comment-2237</link>
		<dc:creator>Kristie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Apr 2006 07:23:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ceruleansanctum.com/?p=232#comment-2237</guid>
		<description>Dan, I had a good laugh when I looked on the (dearly departed from the blogosphere) Marla Swoffer's Blogroll of INTJs...and there was quite a list (as I am one of them), but when I looked up my husbands---ESTP there was the sound of crickets!  Maybe a handful of them.  Coincidence?  I think not.

I am a 5-pointer, dispensationalist, sola scriptura sort of woman, but I appreciate the meyers-briggs stuff anyhow...and yes Jung was a nut, but he did a good job at observing people. 
And the first time I did a Meyers-Brigg profile on myself, it unlocked many mysteries into why I am the way I am. But as a freind advised, it's only an "adjective among adjectives" when describing any person.

Having said that, I think there is a lot of truth in what you said. We are all wired a certain way and that wiring is marred by the fall.  Those of us who are more introverted have to remember we still need people, those who are extaverted need to still take time for reflection, etc....

NT'ers need to make room for feelings.  Feeling people need to take time to think and be logical once in a while!

But not all us NTs are hard hearted. I still like the song Breathe, because to me the essence of what it says is that I can't even survive in the most basic human function without Him. I care about people who hurt, and the vast amount of people who don't have the Gospel.   And I prefer to sing a hymn to a guitar, then a church organ.  I don't lift my hands in worship, but I am jealous of those who feel the freedom to do so.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dan, I had a good laugh when I looked on the (dearly departed from the blogosphere) Marla Swoffer&#8217;s Blogroll of INTJs&#8230;and there was quite a list (as I am one of them), but when I looked up my husbands&#8212;ESTP there was the sound of crickets!  Maybe a handful of them.  Coincidence?  I think not.</p>
<p>I am a 5-pointer, dispensationalist, sola scriptura sort of woman, but I appreciate the meyers-briggs stuff anyhow&#8230;and yes Jung was a nut, but he did a good job at observing people.<br />
And the first time I did a Meyers-Brigg profile on myself, it unlocked many mysteries into why I am the way I am. But as a freind advised, it&#8217;s only an &#8220;adjective among adjectives&#8221; when describing any person.</p>
<p>Having said that, I think there is a lot of truth in what you said. We are all wired a certain way and that wiring is marred by the fall.  Those of us who are more introverted have to remember we still need people, those who are extaverted need to still take time for reflection, etc&#8230;.</p>
<p>NT&#8217;ers need to make room for feelings.  Feeling people need to take time to think and be logical once in a while!</p>
<p>But not all us NTs are hard hearted. I still like the song Breathe, because to me the essence of what it says is that I can&#8217;t even survive in the most basic human function without Him. I care about people who hurt, and the vast amount of people who don&#8217;t have the Gospel.   And I prefer to sing a hymn to a guitar, then a church organ.  I don&#8217;t lift my hands in worship, but I am jealous of those who feel the freedom to do so.</p>
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		<title>By: Ken</title>
		<link>http://ceruleansanctum.com/2006/04/passion-for-christ-yet-another-worship.html#comment-2236</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Apr 2006 19:09:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ceruleansanctum.com/?p=232#comment-2236</guid>
		<description>Gaddabout said..
&lt;I&gt;The people who criticize those type of songs view worship in song as primarily an extension of the pulpit: It is a teaching didactic.&lt;/I&gt;
I think that there should be a teaching function of worship songs, but not every  song needs to be a lesson in systematic theology.  When I plan or evaluate a worship service, I look at the service as a whole.  The service needs to include solid teaching, a response to God's word, and heart-felt praise.  Part of the problem comes from expecting every single individual song to do the whole job.  Look at the Psalms: some are quite theology laden, while others are more of a pouring out of feelings to God.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gaddabout said..<br />
<i>The people who criticize those type of songs view worship in song as primarily an extension of the pulpit: It is a teaching didactic.</i><br />
I think that there should be a teaching function of worship songs, but not every  song needs to be a lesson in systematic theology.  When I plan or evaluate a worship service, I look at the service as a whole.  The service needs to include solid teaching, a response to God&#8217;s word, and heart-felt praise.  Part of the problem comes from expecting every single individual song to do the whole job.  Look at the Psalms: some are quite theology laden, while others are more of a pouring out of feelings to God.</p>
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		<title>By: kelli</title>
		<link>http://ceruleansanctum.com/2006/04/passion-for-christ-yet-another-worship.html#comment-2235</link>
		<dc:creator>kelli</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Apr 2006 18:03:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ceruleansanctum.com/?p=232#comment-2235</guid>
		<description>It doesn't have to be an either/or situation. I have been in churches that did a nice mix in one service.

But you know something that bothers me? This probably should not bother me but it does; churches that have to have two completely different church services so that nobody will be forced to hear some songs that they don't like. If a church needs to have two services because of space constraints (my church is at that place now, and might end up with three services) I prefer the services be planned the same way. I think the whole contemporary service vs. traditional service is divisive. If some of your people like the old hymns and some of your people like the hand-clapping peppy stuff and some of your people like the soft emotional songs, why not do all of them in each service?

And another thing, while I am here at your site to complain, I think Chuck Colson misbehaved. He misbehaved in church and then went on to brag about it. Look at it this way, if my child were to speak in a church service against something that the church leadership had done I would be livid. That child would not be out bragging about the deed. That child would be in his room crying over the lost gameboy, or the months of lost allowance, or something good like that. As we say here in Tennessee; "Didn't Chuck's momma teach him manners?" I am fairly certain that if an outburst of that nature took place at my church, the troublemaker would most likely receive a call from the pastor on Monday. You just don't show that kind of disrespect towards the leaders of your house. 

Stepping down, handing the soapbox to the next participant!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It doesn&#8217;t have to be an either/or situation. I have been in churches that did a nice mix in one service.</p>
<p>But you know something that bothers me? This probably should not bother me but it does; churches that have to have two completely different church services so that nobody will be forced to hear some songs that they don&#8217;t like. If a church needs to have two services because of space constraints (my church is at that place now, and might end up with three services) I prefer the services be planned the same way. I think the whole contemporary service vs. traditional service is divisive. If some of your people like the old hymns and some of your people like the hand-clapping peppy stuff and some of your people like the soft emotional songs, why not do all of them in each service?</p>
<p>And another thing, while I am here at your site to complain, I think Chuck Colson misbehaved. He misbehaved in church and then went on to brag about it. Look at it this way, if my child were to speak in a church service against something that the church leadership had done I would be livid. That child would not be out bragging about the deed. That child would be in his room crying over the lost gameboy, or the months of lost allowance, or something good like that. As we say here in Tennessee; &#8220;Didn&#8217;t Chuck&#8217;s momma teach him manners?&#8221; I am fairly certain that if an outburst of that nature took place at my church, the troublemaker would most likely receive a call from the pastor on Monday. You just don&#8217;t show that kind of disrespect towards the leaders of your house. </p>
<p>Stepping down, handing the soapbox to the next participant!!</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Edelen</title>
		<link>http://ceruleansanctum.com/2006/04/passion-for-christ-yet-another-worship.html#comment-2234</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Edelen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Apr 2006 20:10:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ceruleansanctum.com/?p=232#comment-2234</guid>
		<description>Brian,

Glenn Wichmann and Michael Toy created &lt;a HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rogue_%28game%29" rel="nofollow"&gt;Rogue&lt;/A&gt;. Glenn, Michael, and I all attended the same Vineyard church in Palo Alto, CA during the late 1990s. Glenn and Michael are both outstanding guys.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brian,</p>
<p>Glenn Wichmann and Michael Toy created <a HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rogue_%28game%29" rel="nofollow">Rogue</a>. Glenn, Michael, and I all attended the same Vineyard church in Palo Alto, CA during the late 1990s. Glenn and Michael are both outstanding guys.</p>
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