Comments on: Suffer Little Children… http://ceruleansanctum.com/2006/06/suffer-little-children.html Looking for the 1st century Church in 21st century America Fri, 30 Jul 2010 00:03:38 +0000 hourly 1 By: dan mcgowanhttp://ceruleansanctum.com/2006/06/suffer-little-children.html#comment-4139 dan mcgowan Sun, 25 Jun 2006 04:34:28 +0000 http://ceruleansanctum.com/2006/06/suffer-little-children.html#comment-4139 I understand the idea of needing to see some proof of conversion. At the same time, do we REALLY NEED to SEE that proof? I mean, it's not really up to us, is it? Becoming a follower of Christ is between the person and their Lord.My father was very abusive, both emotionally and physically, to me, my sister and my mother, as I was growing up. He was a very angry, violent man who was bitter and selfish. Obviously, we grew apart (that is an understatement!) We were civil with each other - but it was VERY superficial, at best.About 6 years ago, he had some major medical issues. I went to see him (he lives several states away) and made the decision on the plane that I was going to forgive him and tell him I loved him. Which is what I did. And it was very, very, very difficult to do. But I did it. During that trip, I also shared the gospel with him. He grew up Catholic and was "done" with God. I shared it anyway. And returned home.About 2 years ago, he was back in the hospital. I went to see him again. And, again, I shared the gospel. He told me that he had received Jesus into his heart. BOING!!! Huh? But, he said he had.He is still gruff, a bit prideful, stubborn, etc. AND he says he knows Jesus. Is his fruit revealing this new life in Christ? Not entirely. Neither does mine. (psst - neither does it for ANY of us if we honest.) But he SAYS he knows Jesus as his Lord. Who am I to judge that? Really, that's between him and God.I guess I'd rather err on the side of believing - rather than suspecting, if that makes sense... I understand the idea of needing to see some proof of conversion. At the same time, do we REALLY NEED to SEE that proof? I mean, it’s not really up to us, is it? Becoming a follower of Christ is between the person and their Lord.

My father was very abusive, both emotionally and physically, to me, my sister and my mother, as I was growing up. He was a very angry, violent man who was bitter and selfish. Obviously, we grew apart (that is an understatement!) We were civil with each other – but it was VERY superficial, at best.

About 6 years ago, he had some major medical issues. I went to see him (he lives several states away) and made the decision on the plane that I was going to forgive him and tell him I loved him. Which is what I did. And it was very, very, very difficult to do. But I did it. During that trip, I also shared the gospel with him. He grew up Catholic and was “done” with God. I shared it anyway. And returned home.

About 2 years ago, he was back in the hospital. I went to see him again. And, again, I shared the gospel. He told me that he had received Jesus into his heart. BOING!!! Huh? But, he said he had.

He is still gruff, a bit prideful, stubborn, etc. AND he says he knows Jesus. Is his fruit revealing this new life in Christ? Not entirely. Neither does mine. (psst – neither does it for ANY of us if we honest.) But he SAYS he knows Jesus as his Lord. Who am I to judge that? Really, that’s between him and God.

I guess I’d rather err on the side of believing – rather than suspecting, if that makes sense…

]]> By: Dan Edelenhttp://ceruleansanctum.com/2006/06/suffer-little-children.html#comment-4138 Dan Edelen Sat, 24 Jun 2006 19:53:07 +0000 http://ceruleansanctum.com/2006/06/suffer-little-children.html#comment-4138 Dan,I don't take anyone's word on salvation unless evidence exists for it. The leaders of the early church didn't take Paul's word on his conversion until they had some real evidence. Yes, I know he was a persecutor, but the fact remains. By their fruits you will know them.If we were all a bit more skeptical, maybe we wouldn't have so many cases of people "falling away" in time. We need to be as wise as snakes and as innocent as doves, even on this issue. I think that we can rejoice with that family, but the proof is always in the walking out of supposed belief. Dan,

I don’t take anyone’s word on salvation unless evidence exists for it. The leaders of the early church didn’t take Paul’s word on his conversion until they had some real evidence. Yes, I know he was a persecutor, but the fact remains. By their fruits you will know them.

If we were all a bit more skeptical, maybe we wouldn’t have so many cases of people “falling away” in time. We need to be as wise as snakes and as innocent as doves, even on this issue. I think that we can rejoice with that family, but the proof is always in the walking out of supposed belief.

]]> By: Dan Edelenhttp://ceruleansanctum.com/2006/06/suffer-little-children.html#comment-4137 Dan Edelen Sat, 24 Jun 2006 19:48:15 +0000 http://ceruleansanctum.com/2006/06/suffer-little-children.html#comment-4137 Mike,Moses knew what he was supposed to do, but he didn't do it. This kindled the wrath of God.If we know we are to be baptized and we don't do it, why should God treat us better than Moses? Once we know, we are without excuse.I try to stay away from the whole "jungle native/ desert islander" scenario. How one answers that depends greatly on whether one is a Calvinist, Arminian, or another viewpoint. All I know is that God wants the Gospel to go out to the jungle native or desert islander. That's where I stand on that issue. Mike,

Moses knew what he was supposed to do, but he didn’t do it. This kindled the wrath of God.

If we know we are to be baptized and we don’t do it, why should God treat us better than Moses? Once we know, we are without excuse.

I try to stay away from the whole “jungle native/ desert islander” scenario. How one answers that depends greatly on whether one is a Calvinist, Arminian, or another viewpoint. All I know is that God wants the Gospel to go out to the jungle native or desert islander. That’s where I stand on that issue.

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