Comments on: The Antiwitness http://ceruleansanctum.com/2006/06/the-antiwitness.html Looking for the 1st century Church in 21st century America Fri, 12 Mar 2010 21:01:17 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Gina R Johnson http://ceruleansanctum.com/2006/06/the-antiwitness.html#comment-4557 Gina R Johnson Thu, 20 Jul 2006 07:09:47 +0000 http://ceruleansanctum.com/2006/06/the-antiwitness.html#comment-4557 my brother, your post CONVICTED me, big time. Thanks! my brother, your post CONVICTED me, big time. Thanks!

]]> By: Brian http://ceruleansanctum.com/2006/06/the-antiwitness.html#comment-4482 Brian Sat, 15 Jul 2006 05:24:16 +0000 http://ceruleansanctum.com/2006/06/the-antiwitness.html#comment-4482 Speaking of individualism in our Americanized spirituality... I was just noticing today as I was listening to some praise music. There are an awful lot of songs written about "my Lord" "my Jesus" "my Savior" "how I love You"..... my, I, me. But when Jesus taught us to pray, He said "Our Father, who art in heaven...." I think much of the Bible places more emphasis on how we relate to God together as a family, not just "me and God". I do think that is a weakness in the American church. Speaking of individualism in our Americanized spirituality… I was just noticing today as I was listening to some praise music. There are an awful lot of songs written about “my Lord” “my Jesus” “my Savior” “how I love You”….. my, I, me.
But when Jesus taught us to pray, He said “Our Father, who art in heaven….” I think much of the Bible places more emphasis on how we relate to God together as a family, not just “me and God”. I do think that is a weakness in the American church.

]]> By: Brian http://ceruleansanctum.com/2006/06/the-antiwitness.html#comment-4481 Brian Sat, 15 Jul 2006 05:15:08 +0000 http://ceruleansanctum.com/2006/06/the-antiwitness.html#comment-4481 I heard this great comment from a man who's led a relational evangelism and discipleship college ministry for 20 years: Many people like to go fishing, but it's harder to find people who want to stick around and clean the fish. I heard this great comment from a man who’s led a relational evangelism and discipleship college ministry for 20 years:
Many people like to go fishing, but it’s harder to find people who want to stick around and clean the fish.

]]> By: Dan Edelen http://ceruleansanctum.com/2006/06/the-antiwitness.html#comment-4386 Dan Edelen Mon, 10 Jul 2006 13:25:34 +0000 http://ceruleansanctum.com/2006/06/the-antiwitness.html#comment-4386 Themistocles, Thanks for being a new reader! Your pragmatism is showing here, I suspect. The reasoning that "Jesus only got 25%" is not an answer, though. He told us to make disciples, not converts, and our success rate has nothing to do with it. If we fail to do that, then we're ignoring the Great Commission. He appointed some to be pastors and teachers because people need solid leadership in becoming a disciple. You can't walk away from the process or else you will get people like Stu who don't know any better. Is Stu responsible for some of what should be his own growth? Yes. But so are the people who led him to Christ. Your comment about community is odd because we are the Body of Christ for a reason, and the Body is designed to be integrally woven together, not a loose collection pf parts strewn here and there. The illustration you give of North Korea fails to address the need that what is foundational is Christian belief, THEN corporate function. The Church Growth Movement has tried to show how God will benefit people, but it's been a colossal failure. We're not "selling" Jesus as a spiritual Swiss Army knife. And God does ask people to sacrifice their own needs for those of others. All the apostles wound up dead or paid harshly for their allegiance to the Lord. If dying to self is self-flagellation, then I don't understand what you think the components of the Gospel are. Themistocles,

Thanks for being a new reader!

Your pragmatism is showing here, I suspect. The reasoning that “Jesus only got 25%” is not an answer, though. He told us to make disciples, not converts, and our success rate has nothing to do with it. If we fail to do that, then we’re ignoring the Great Commission. He appointed some to be pastors and teachers because people need solid leadership in becoming a disciple. You can’t walk away from the process or else you will get people like Stu who don’t know any better.

Is Stu responsible for some of what should be his own growth? Yes. But so are the people who led him to Christ.

Your comment about community is odd because we are the Body of Christ for a reason, and the Body is designed to be integrally woven together, not a loose collection pf parts strewn here and there. The illustration you give of North Korea fails to address the need that what is foundational is Christian belief, THEN corporate function.

The Church Growth Movement has tried to show how God will benefit people, but it’s been a colossal failure. We’re not “selling” Jesus as a spiritual Swiss Army knife. And God does ask people to sacrifice their own needs for those of others. All the apostles wound up dead or paid harshly for their allegiance to the Lord. If dying to self is self-flagellation, then I don’t understand what you think the components of the Gospel are.

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