Comments on: Unshackling the American Church: Treasuring the Creator’s Handiwork http://ceruleansanctum.com/2006/06/unshackling-the-american-church-treasuring-the-creators-handiwork.html Looking for the 1st century Church in 21st century America Fri, 19 Mar 2010 04:23:35 -0400 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Cerulean Sanctum » Unshackling the American Church: Fraternitas http://ceruleansanctum.com/2006/06/unshackling-the-american-church-treasuring-the-creators-handiwork.html#comment-24278 Cerulean Sanctum » Unshackling the American Church: Fraternitas Wed, 24 Jan 2007 08:12:28 +0000 http://ceruleansanctum.com/2006/06/unshackling-the-american-church-treasuring-the-creators-handiwork.html#comment-24278 [...] Unshackling the American Church: Treasuring the Creator’s Handiwork [...]

[...] Unshackling the American Church: Treasuring the Creator’s Handiwork [...]

]]> By: Mike Oliver http://ceruleansanctum.com/2006/06/unshackling-the-american-church-treasuring-the-creators-handiwork.html#comment-3912 Mike Oliver Mon, 05 Jun 2006 18:23:14 +0000 http://ceruleansanctum.com/2006/06/unshackling-the-american-church-treasuring-the-creators-handiwork.html#comment-3912 With me and I think many Christians the problem is when you say green or environmental I think of people who worship the creation rather than the creator and they have already set the agenda. Wildlife management is a nice example. The don't kill Bambi's dad mindset overlooks the facts that almost all money spent on wildllife and habitat comes from hunting and fishing licenses, and that the population of Bambies if left unchecked by controled harvesting will increase to the point that more will be lost to disease and starvation and being hit by vehicles than would ever have been killed by hunters. So Dan if you can help me improve my stewardship of God's creationship, I'm all for you but don't ask me to get on board with the green revolution, that ship has already sailed with a captain and crew that I can't accept. With me and I think many Christians the problem is when you say green or environmental I think of people who worship the creation rather than the creator and they have already set the agenda.
Wildlife management is a nice example. The don’t kill Bambi’s dad mindset overlooks the facts that almost all money spent on wildllife and habitat comes from hunting and fishing licenses, and that the population of Bambies if left unchecked by controled harvesting will increase to the point that more will be lost to disease and starvation and being hit by vehicles than would ever have been killed by hunters. So Dan if you can help me improve my stewardship of God’s creationship, I’m all for you but don’t ask me to get on board with the green revolution, that ship has already sailed with a captain and crew that I can’t accept.

]]> By: Oengus Moonbones http://ceruleansanctum.com/2006/06/unshackling-the-american-church-treasuring-the-creators-handiwork.html#comment-3893 Oengus Moonbones Sun, 04 Jun 2006 15:05:30 +0000 http://ceruleansanctum.com/2006/06/unshackling-the-american-church-treasuring-the-creators-handiwork.html#comment-3893 Dan, you're on a roll. Keep it up. Like you, I'm sick of the Church surrendering everything to the Devil. It's time to start taking stuff back. (By the way, the Republidemocanicrat Party is totally in the grip of a basically Utilitarian philosophy…the only argument it's having is who gets to cash on what.) Dan, you’re on a roll. Keep it up. Like you, I’m sick of the Church surrendering everything to the Devil. It’s time to start taking stuff back.

(By the way, the Republidemocanicrat Party is totally in the grip of a basically Utilitarian philosophy…the only argument it’s having is who gets to cash on what.)

]]> By: Protagonist http://ceruleansanctum.com/2006/06/unshackling-the-american-church-treasuring-the-creators-handiwork.html#comment-3873 Protagonist Sat, 03 Jun 2006 16:58:04 +0000 http://ceruleansanctum.com/2006/06/unshackling-the-american-church-treasuring-the-creators-handiwork.html#comment-3873 Littering is an easy target. A litterbug is throwing trash on someone else's property--be it private property or public property--and violating the (property) rights of someone else. That is solipsistic behavior and should be condemned as such; doubly so if the litterbug is a Christian. This is not the same as strip mining, building Wal-Marts, and the other sterotypical evil capitalist behavior you condemn. I think you're being a little shortsighted, creating a false dilemma between "economic value" and our interests in enjoying the aesthetic beauty of nature. The meadow with oil under it has two values: (1) The value of the commodity underneath, and (2) the aesthetic value of the trees, birds, flowers, deer, hills, dales, ponds, etc. You laid out the system where, when (1) becomes more valuable than (2), then (2) will be destroyed to receive the value of (1). But when does that happen. The owner of such a beautiful plot of land is not going to see it leveled for a $20.00 profit of oil. Or $200. Or probably even $2000. There is economic value in the aesthetic beauty of God's creation. Why else would our society spend billions on sporting goods, RVs, and camping sites? The "plundering of resources" you comdemn is actually maximizes the beauty of nature. We strip-mine to get coal, to give us heat and electricity. Without coal-burning, the alternative is clear-cutting acres of forest to stay warm. We build Wal-Marts, in part, to bring efficiently grown agricultural goods to city dwellers. The alternative is each household tearing up several acres of land to grow our own food, or kill all the wild game possible. Only the most malicious people want to see nature destroyed for the sake of seeing destruction. Most people in our capitalist society value the beauty of nature, and seek--directly or indirectly--to have that value maximized. BTW, recycling is fools-gold. <a href="http://www.perc.org/pdf/ps28.pdf" rel="nofollow">This link</a> is instructive. (Note especially Myths Nos. 6 & 7. The recycling process causes far more pollution than raw manufacture and permanent disposal.) Littering is an easy target. A litterbug is throwing trash on someone else’s property–be it private property or public property–and violating the (property) rights of someone else. That is solipsistic behavior and should be condemned as such; doubly so if the litterbug is a Christian.

This is not the same as strip mining, building Wal-Marts, and the other sterotypical evil capitalist behavior you condemn. I think you’re being a little shortsighted, creating a false dilemma between “economic value” and our interests in enjoying the aesthetic beauty of nature.

The meadow with oil under it has two values: (1) The value of the commodity underneath, and (2) the aesthetic value of the trees, birds, flowers, deer, hills, dales, ponds, etc. You laid out the system where, when (1) becomes more valuable than (2), then (2) will be destroyed to receive the value of (1). But when does that happen. The owner of such a beautiful plot of land is not going to see it leveled for a $20.00 profit of oil. Or $200. Or probably even $2000. There is economic value in the aesthetic beauty of God’s creation. Why else would our society spend billions on sporting goods, RVs, and camping sites?

The “plundering of resources” you comdemn is actually maximizes the beauty of nature. We strip-mine to get coal, to give us heat and electricity. Without coal-burning, the alternative is clear-cutting acres of forest to stay warm. We build Wal-Marts, in part, to bring efficiently grown agricultural goods to city dwellers. The alternative is each household tearing up several acres of land to grow our own food, or kill all the wild game possible.

Only the most malicious people want to see nature destroyed for the sake of seeing destruction. Most people in our capitalist society value the beauty of nature, and seek–directly or indirectly–to have that value maximized.

BTW, recycling is fools-gold. This link is instructive. (Note especially Myths Nos. 6 & 7. The recycling process causes far more pollution than raw manufacture and permanent disposal.)

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