Comments on: Gut Check #6 http://ceruleansanctum.com/2006/08/gut-check-6.html Looking for the 1st century Church in 21st century America Mon, 01 Dec 2008 22:04:48 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.5 By: Steve http://ceruleansanctum.com/2006/08/gut-check-6.html#comment-5296 Steve Thu, 17 Aug 2006 19:34:22 +0000 http://ceruleansanctum.com/2006/08/gut-check-6.html#comment-5296 Dan: No, I had not seen your post, but I agree with it. I do not disagree with Young/Stanley, but God alone knows what He is doing and is planning on doing in someone's life to bring them into a deeper walk with Him. Yes, a part of my prayer in this situation (praying with someone on the spot when prayer is requested) is a Supplication, but the bigger purpose of my prayer is to glorify God, whether in the form of Adoration, Confession or Thanksgiving. For me, ideally supplication comes at the end of all of those, like the acronym A-C-T-S, but I admit that there might not always be time for all of those elements when saying a quick prayer with someone. What you label as "qualifying prayer" is the single part of my prayer that absolutely lines up 100% with the will of God, and that is the part of submission to the will of God. I am not in the least bit worried about whether or not God will answer the prayer in the manner that I have requested. It is more important that my prayer with the requester takes our eyes off of the immediate situation and re-focuses them on God Himself, as in Who He Is and not what He can do for us in this situation. I want to pray to let the requester know that the Holy Spirit is indeed interceding and will work through our prayers for God's glory and our good, even though the requested action might or might now actually be the best for the friend or relative. I have no problems at all for praying for needs. I don't doubt that God will work through miracles or acts of providence or will provide encouragement through God's grace sufficient to endure the situation. I will be the first to explain to that person that victory is not a result of prayer or faith, but instead victory is keeping the faith in the promises of God when we are up to our necks in alligators, as the Cajun saying goes. It is not double-minedness to admit that God's omniscience is greater than my knowledge, and that humble submission to God's plans is better than pressing on for my narrow-minded solutions. Blessings to you, Steve Dan: No, I had not seen your post, but I agree with it. I do not disagree with Young/Stanley, but God alone knows what He is doing and is planning on doing in someone’s life to bring them into a deeper walk with Him. Yes, a part of my prayer in this situation (praying with someone on the spot when prayer is requested) is a Supplication, but the bigger purpose of my prayer is to glorify God, whether in the form of Adoration, Confession or Thanksgiving. For me, ideally supplication comes at the end of all of those, like the acronym A-C-T-S, but I admit that there might not always be time for all of those elements when saying a quick prayer with someone.

What you label as “qualifying prayer” is the single part of my prayer that absolutely lines up 100% with the will of God, and that is the part of submission to the will of God. I am not in the least bit worried about whether or not God will answer the prayer in the manner that I have requested. It is more important that my prayer with the requester takes our eyes off of the immediate situation and re-focuses them on God Himself, as in Who He Is and not what He can do for us in this situation. I want to pray to let the requester know that the Holy Spirit is indeed interceding and will work through our prayers for God’s glory and our good, even though the requested action might or might now actually be the best for the friend or relative.

I have no problems at all for praying for needs. I don’t doubt that God will work through miracles or acts of providence or will provide encouragement through God’s grace sufficient to endure the situation. I will be the first to explain to that person that victory is not a result of prayer or faith, but instead victory is keeping the faith in the promises of God when we are up to our necks in alligators, as the Cajun saying goes. It is not double-minedness to admit that God’s omniscience is greater than my knowledge, and that humble submission to God’s plans is better than pressing on for my narrow-minded solutions. Blessings to you, Steve

]]> By: Dan Edelen http://ceruleansanctum.com/2006/08/gut-check-6.html#comment-5294 Dan Edelen Thu, 17 Aug 2006 16:10:55 +0000 http://ceruleansanctum.com/2006/08/gut-check-6.html#comment-5294 Steve, Have you read my post <a href="http://ceruleansanctum.com/2005/08/little-things-unkept-prayer-promises.html" rel="nofollow">The Little Things: Unkept Prayer Promises</a>? I disagree, though, with the position of Young/Stanley. We are to continue to pray for the best possible outcome. If there is sickness, we pray for health. If there is financial loss, we pray pray for more money. The Bible is exceptionally clear on asking for those kinds of needs. I also disagree with qualifying prayer. The only example of qualifying prayer that comes to mind is Jesus' prayer in Gethsemane before his crucifixion. That prayer had unique attributes that I do not believe carry over into all circumstances. James teaches that a double-minded man cannot expect to receive anything. I think that qualifying our prayers is more a lack of faith on our parts and falls into that double-mindedness. You never see a prayer prayed before a miracle in the Bible that had any qualifiers on it. In fact, the doubters were scolded by Jesus. Pray in faith. Do not doubt. No qualifications. God desires to hear bold prayers, not qualified ones. Steve,

Have you read my post The Little Things: Unkept Prayer Promises?

I disagree, though, with the position of Young/Stanley. We are to continue to pray for the best possible outcome. If there is sickness, we pray for health. If there is financial loss, we pray pray for more money. The Bible is exceptionally clear on asking for those kinds of needs.

I also disagree with qualifying prayer. The only example of qualifying prayer that comes to mind is Jesus’ prayer in Gethsemane before his crucifixion. That prayer had unique attributes that I do not believe carry over into all circumstances.

James teaches that a double-minded man cannot expect to receive anything. I think that qualifying our prayers is more a lack of faith on our parts and falls into that double-mindedness. You never see a prayer prayed before a miracle in the Bible that had any qualifiers on it. In fact, the doubters were scolded by Jesus.

Pray in faith. Do not doubt. No qualifications. God desires to hear bold prayers, not qualified ones.

]]> By: Steve http://ceruleansanctum.com/2006/08/gut-check-6.html#comment-5292 Steve Thu, 17 Aug 2006 15:48:26 +0000 http://ceruleansanctum.com/2006/08/gut-check-6.html#comment-5292 I am a firm believer that when someone asks for prayer that it is better to not say "I will pray for you" but to stop right there and actually pray with that person. And for a long time I was somewhat troubled when the person asking for prayer had a friend or relative that was in jail, or arrested, or ill, or whatever situation in a place where God could get that friend or relative's attention and draw that friend or relative into a deeper relationship with God . . . so then why should I pray that God would remove the friend or relative from where God wanted him/her to be. Then I heard Ed Young or Charles Stanley on the radio or TV talking about how they always want to be careful to not pray against the will of God. If God brings a disease or illness upon a person and God is using that situation to knock the props out from under that person so that the person will rely solely upon God (see 2 corinthians 1:8-9), who am I to pray to undermine what God is working. And then I learned from Romans 8 that the Holy Spirit intercedes when we pray, because even with our willing hearts, we don't know the mind of God. So now when I am with someone and I pray out loud for that person's friend or relative, I will do it as the Holy Spirit leads me for whatever I can see that God might accomplish, and I will mention the desired outcome requested by the prayer-seeker, but then I will qualify the entire prayer by saying that our entire prayer request is being petitioned to God subject to His more perfect will. And I will also spend a significant portion of the prayer in being thankful for God being sovereign and His providing all of the blessings that have placed this friend or relative into the exact position that he/she is in. I am a firm believer that when someone asks for prayer that it is better to not say “I will pray for you” but to stop right there and actually pray with that person. And for a long time I was somewhat troubled when the person asking for prayer had a friend or relative that was in jail, or arrested, or ill, or whatever situation in a place where God could get that friend or relative’s attention and draw that friend or relative into a deeper relationship with God . . . so then why should I pray that God would remove the friend or relative from where God wanted him/her to be. Then I heard Ed Young or Charles Stanley on the radio or TV talking about how they always want to be careful to not pray against the will of God. If God brings a disease or illness upon a person and God is using that situation to knock the props out from under that person so that the person will rely solely upon God (see 2 corinthians 1:8-9), who am I to pray to undermine what God is working. And then I learned from Romans 8 that the Holy Spirit intercedes when we pray, because even with our willing hearts, we don’t know the mind of God. So now when I am with someone and I pray out loud for that person’s friend or relative, I will do it as the Holy Spirit leads me for whatever I can see that God might accomplish, and I will mention the desired outcome requested by the prayer-seeker, but then I will qualify the entire prayer by saying that our entire prayer request is being petitioned to God subject to His more perfect will. And I will also spend a significant portion of the prayer in being thankful for God being sovereign and His providing all of the blessings that have placed this friend or relative into the exact position that he/she is in.

]]> By: bob http://ceruleansanctum.com/2006/08/gut-check-6.html#comment-4819 bob Thu, 03 Aug 2006 22:34:04 +0000 http://ceruleansanctum.com/2006/08/gut-check-6.html#comment-4819 May I expand on the disappointment issue raised earlier by Dan. It is one thing to pray passionately for someone else and that prayer "bombs" - doesn't come to pass. We can distance ourself from the questions raised and ghastly letdown. When our prayer "outcomes" are so amiss from what we asked, even if it melds to bible verses, the reminders of letdown are constant. Some outcomes of my prayers were so unsettling I figure well, I'll just throw some stuff against the wall and see what sticks. Don't ask for something that God might not grant; ask for something He might answer. A greater surrender is needed. Weren't we told to wait on the Lord? May I expand on the disappointment issue raised earlier by Dan. It is one thing to pray passionately for someone else and that prayer “bombs” - doesn’t come to pass. We can distance ourself from the questions raised and ghastly letdown.

When our prayer “outcomes” are so amiss from what we asked, even if it melds to bible verses, the reminders of letdown are constant. Some outcomes of my prayers were so unsettling I figure well, I’ll just throw some stuff against the wall and see what sticks. Don’t ask for something that God might not grant; ask for something He might answer.

A greater surrender is needed. Weren’t we told to wait on the Lord?

]]> By: The Boars Head Tavern » Blog Archive » http://ceruleansanctum.com/2006/08/gut-check-6.html#comment-4813 The Boars Head Tavern » Blog Archive » Thu, 03 Aug 2006 15:15:46 +0000 http://ceruleansanctum.com/2006/08/gut-check-6.html#comment-4813 [...] Why is it that you have so much faith when praying for others in need, but never for yourself? [...] [...] Why is it that you have so much faith when praying for others in need, but never for yourself? [...]

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