Comments on: The Church of the Redundant http://ceruleansanctum.com/2008/01/the-church-of-the-redundant.html Looking for the 1st century Church in 21st century America Fri, 21 Nov 2008 03:35:21 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.3 By: ShawnStutz.com» Blog Archive » He or he: Which One? http://ceruleansanctum.com/2008/01/the-church-of-the-redundant.html#comment-36257 ShawnStutz.com» Blog Archive » He or he: Which One? Sat, 08 Mar 2008 17:00:22 +0000 http://ceruleansanctum.com/2008/01/the-church-of-the-redundant.html#comment-36257 [...] This article is great. Who is the He that is lifted up most… How redundant is your church? Is your church a cult of personality? So asks Dan Edelen in a post about pastors and “redundancy” in church leadership. Dan’s not [...] [...] This article is great. Who is the He that is lifted up most… How redundant is your church? Is your church a cult of personality? So asks Dan Edelen in a post about pastors and “redundancy” in church leadership. Dan’s not [...]

]]> By: Is your church redundant? | Think Christian http://ceruleansanctum.com/2008/01/the-church-of-the-redundant.html#comment-36202 Is your church redundant? | Think Christian Thu, 06 Mar 2008 20:26:04 +0000 http://ceruleansanctum.com/2008/01/the-church-of-the-redundant.html#comment-36202 [...] How redundant is your church? Is your church a cult of personality? [...] [...] How redundant is your church? Is your church a cult of personality? [...]

]]> By: Amy Heague http://ceruleansanctum.com/2008/01/the-church-of-the-redundant.html#comment-33825 Amy Heague Fri, 11 Jan 2008 04:16:36 +0000 http://ceruleansanctum.com/2008/01/the-church-of-the-redundant.html#comment-33825 same thing happened with us a few years back - senior pastors retired more than half the congregation left, & with out going into the underlying politics, I think it was the best thing to ever happen to us as a people & a congregation. A harsh prune it was, but what is left is stronger & healthier than it ever was. And I now find myself in the position of Assistant & I wonder.... My thought is; my role as a leader, is to help the people I am entrusted with become all that God created them to be, by discipling, sharing my faith & life with them etc. If they are better than me at something then let them do it & we continue to work together - well, okay, I'm working on that one! As leaders we can think that we are indispensable, but sometimes we are really just in the way of God moving more fully in His people. I'd like to think I can do myself out of a job, so to speak! ;-) same thing happened with us a few years back - senior pastors retired more than half the congregation left, & with out going into the underlying politics, I think it was the best thing to ever happen to us as a people & a congregation.
A harsh prune it was, but what is left is stronger & healthier than it ever was.
And I now find myself in the position of Assistant & I wonder….
My thought is; my role as a leader, is to help the people I am entrusted with become all that God created them to be, by discipling, sharing my faith & life with them etc.
If they are better than me at something then let them do it & we continue to work together - well, okay, I’m working on that one!
As leaders we can think that we are indispensable, but sometimes we are really just in the way of God moving more fully in His people. I’d like to think I can do myself out of a job, so to speak! ;-)

]]> By: Travis Seitler http://ceruleansanctum.com/2008/01/the-church-of-the-redundant.html#comment-33807 Travis Seitler Thu, 10 Jan 2008 20:25:33 +0000 http://ceruleansanctum.com/2008/01/the-church-of-the-redundant.html#comment-33807 <em>"So where do we go from here, army of the redundant?"</em> Away from the dedicated buildings and job titles, and toward a more village-like mindset. :) Village elders are respected because of the wisdom they've demonstrated over the years (well, okay, fine--sometimes it's because they killed the biggest lion). Anyway, those elders are not sought out for advice, counsel and instruction because they "own the keys," but because they've shown over the years that they know what they're talking about. There's two ways this shift from "Church, Inc." to "the church as village" can happen: either the current leaders (with a vested interest in the <em>status quo</em>) will change, or the rest of the body will just ignore the professionals and seek out the <em>true</em> elders. The one is unlikely, the other is uncomfortable. So, um... prayer. Yup, that's my answer: prayer. ;) “So where do we go from here, army of the redundant?”

Away from the dedicated buildings and job titles, and toward a more village-like mindset. :)

Village elders are respected because of the wisdom they’ve demonstrated over the years (well, okay, fine–sometimes it’s because they killed the biggest lion). Anyway, those elders are not sought out for advice, counsel and instruction because they “own the keys,” but because they’ve shown over the years that they know what they’re talking about.

There’s two ways this shift from “Church, Inc.” to “the church as village” can happen: either the current leaders (with a vested interest in the status quo) will change, or the rest of the body will just ignore the professionals and seek out the true elders. The one is unlikely, the other is uncomfortable.

So, um… prayer. Yup, that’s my answer: prayer. ;)

]]> By: Ben http://ceruleansanctum.com/2008/01/the-church-of-the-redundant.html#comment-33806 Ben Thu, 10 Jan 2008 18:50:20 +0000 http://ceruleansanctum.com/2008/01/the-church-of-the-redundant.html#comment-33806 Good point, Dan. Having left my church recently, this is a perspective that I hadn't really considered. Perhaps our decisions to leave churches is reflective of the cultural value of "disposability"/obsession with novelty -- if something isn't working, get rid of it/leave it and get something new -- a value that the church (inevitably?) is reflecting, and us, as members of the church are reflecting also. So it seems like it'd definitely be an upstream battle, a counter-cultural attitude, even to a majority of Christians, perhaps? While a decision to stay and try and work things out could certainly be taxing, it may not lessen character if it seems like there's a particularly bad church situation or even just a situation where someone's growth is stagnating perhaps and that leaving to go to a place of greater opportunity for maturity would be a good decision, no? I suppose it depends on the reasons for leaving -- spiritual or non-spiritual. However, the distinction between the two is likely difficult to make, particularly for different people. Good point, Dan. Having left my church recently, this is a perspective that I hadn’t really considered. Perhaps our decisions to leave churches is reflective of the cultural value of “disposability”/obsession with novelty — if something isn’t working, get rid of it/leave it and get something new — a value that the church (inevitably?) is reflecting, and us, as members of the church are reflecting also. So it seems like it’d definitely be an upstream battle, a counter-cultural attitude, even to a majority of Christians, perhaps?
While a decision to stay and try and work things out could certainly be taxing, it may not lessen character if it seems like there’s a particularly bad church situation or even just a situation where someone’s growth is stagnating perhaps and that leaving to go to a place of greater opportunity for maturity would be a good decision, no? I suppose it depends on the reasons for leaving — spiritual or non-spiritual. However, the distinction between the two is likely difficult to make, particularly for different people.

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