Comments on: Banking on God: The Tithe, Part 2 http://ceruleansanctum.com/2008/03/banking-on-god-the-tithe-part-2.html Looking for the 1st century Church in 21st century America Sun, 14 Mar 2010 23:00:40 -0400 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Stephen Davis http://ceruleansanctum.com/2008/03/banking-on-god-the-tithe-part-2.html#comment-36626 Stephen Davis Tue, 18 Mar 2008 04:11:58 +0000 http://ceruleansanctum.com/2008/03/banking-on-god-the-tithe-part-2.html#comment-36626 These harsh words are found in Hebrews 10. "Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath troden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord, And again, The Lord shall judge his people." If you go to Deuteronomy 32 you will find both these quotes. What better place to look for the cause of this warning than in the chapter that gives us these words. Also, in this chapter you will find one of the few references to the word "faith". Faith is such a major factor in New Testament teaching. What follows Hebrews 10 is Hebrews 11 known famously as the 'faith' chapter. It is in Deut. 32:20 that Moses says of the people that they are a generation that has no 'faith'. Here in Deut.32 is where you will find tithe issues also. One is in verse 32..."For their vine is the vine of Sodom..." Of what did Abraham give to Melchisedek but the goods of Sodom. Secondly, in verse 34 we find the word translated 'treasures' is translated in Malachi 3 as 'storehouse'. It is the vine of Sodom that is found in the storehouse. Is this why Abraham refused to keep any of the spoils. It is Jerusalem that is called 'spiritual Sodom' in Revelations. Both Jerusalem and Sodom had tithes taken of their goods but both found the fire of destruction coming upon them. Most of Hebrews is focused on the greatness of Christ and His offering. We are told that as a preist after the order of Melchisedek he had something to offer. Was it tithes? No. It was his blood and body. It is there, read it. Yet, there are those like Kenneth Hagin that somehow find that Jesus is the receiver of tithes, and they fail to point to what is the focus of the writer of Hebrews......Jesus offered his blood. A one-time offering. By it we come with boldness to the throne of grace. There are many though who would have you believe that you cannot lift your head unless you have brought Jesus his tithe. Kenneth Hagin bases his theology on a wisper of syntax. He says the verse in Hebrews 7:8 is pointing to Jesus as the receiver of tithes. All of the commentators I have read on this says that Melchisedek is the one receiving the tithe.........to be continued. These harsh words are found in Hebrews 10.
“Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath troden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord, And again, The Lord shall judge his people.”

If you go to Deuteronomy 32 you will find both these quotes. What better place to look for the cause of this warning than in the chapter that gives us these words. Also, in this chapter you will find one of the few references to the word “faith”. Faith is such a major factor in New Testament teaching. What follows Hebrews 10 is Hebrews 11 known famously as the ‘faith’ chapter. It is in Deut. 32:20 that Moses says of the people that they are a generation that has no ‘faith’.

Here in Deut.32 is where you will find tithe issues also. One is in verse 32…”For their vine is the vine of Sodom…” Of what did Abraham give to Melchisedek but the goods of Sodom. Secondly, in verse 34 we find the word translated ‘treasures’ is translated in Malachi 3 as ’storehouse’. It is the vine of Sodom that is found in the storehouse. Is this why Abraham refused to keep any of the spoils. It is Jerusalem that is called ’spiritual Sodom’ in Revelations. Both Jerusalem and Sodom had tithes taken of their goods but both found the fire of destruction coming upon them.

Most of Hebrews is focused on the greatness of Christ and His offering. We are told that as a preist after the order of Melchisedek he had something to offer. Was it tithes? No. It was his blood and body. It is there, read it. Yet, there are those like Kenneth Hagin that somehow find that Jesus is the receiver of tithes, and they fail to point to what is the focus of the writer of Hebrews……Jesus offered his blood. A one-time offering. By it we come with boldness to the throne of grace. There are many though who would have you believe that you cannot lift your head unless you have brought Jesus his tithe.

Kenneth Hagin bases his theology on a wisper of syntax. He says the verse in Hebrews 7:8 is pointing to Jesus as the receiver of tithes. All of the commentators I have read on this says that Melchisedek is the one receiving the tithe………to be continued.

]]> By: Stephen Davis http://ceruleansanctum.com/2008/03/banking-on-god-the-tithe-part-2.html#comment-36562 Stephen Davis Sat, 15 Mar 2008 19:07:57 +0000 http://ceruleansanctum.com/2008/03/banking-on-god-the-tithe-part-2.html#comment-36562 Just call me Jon Jr. I tend to kind of take over the tithing blogs when I get going. I have much respect for your work and ideas, Russell. I think we both realize the harm that the prosperity gospel is doing to our churches. Just let me know when to cut back and I'll be quiet for a while. I hope Jon is still there. The boy has some zeal that can be channeled into better representing the Gospel. I know the theology of Kenneth Hagan very well. At some point, it would be good to get into Hebrews a bit more and challenge one of Hagan's pillars of support for the tithing teaching that has been a seed bed for a lot of ministries that have followed him. The letter to the Hebrews warns of the vengence that is coming (Heb 10:30). I would like to show why the tithe collecting business is the reason it is coming. Just call me Jon Jr. I tend to kind of take over the tithing blogs when I get going. I have much respect for your work and ideas, Russell. I think we both realize the harm that the prosperity gospel is doing to our churches. Just let me know when to cut back and I’ll be quiet for a while. I hope Jon is still there. The boy has some zeal that can be channeled into better representing the Gospel. I know the theology of Kenneth Hagan very well. At some point, it would be good to get into Hebrews a bit more and challenge one of Hagan’s pillars of support for the tithing teaching that has been a seed bed for a lot of ministries that have followed him.

The letter to the Hebrews warns of the vengence that is coming (Heb 10:30). I would like to show why the tithe collecting business is the reason it is coming.

]]> By: Stephen Davis http://ceruleansanctum.com/2008/03/banking-on-god-the-tithe-part-2.html#comment-36541 Stephen Davis Fri, 14 Mar 2008 03:28:47 +0000 http://ceruleansanctum.com/2008/03/banking-on-god-the-tithe-part-2.html#comment-36541 This is the quote from the early church fathers: Clement of Alexandria "Many, truly, are the shoes of the sinful soul, by which it is bound and cramped. For each man is cramped by the cords of his own sins. Accordingly, Abraham swears to the king of Sodom, "I will not take of all that is thine, from a thread to a shoe-latchet." On account of these being defiled and polluted on the earth, every kind of wrong and selfishness engrosses life. As the Lord reproves Israel by Amos, saying, "For three iniquities of Israel, yea, for four, I will not turn him back; because they have given away the righteous for silver, and the needy for a pair of shoes, which tread upon the dust of the ground." This verse in Amos 2:6 and again in Amos 8:6 uses the phrase Abraham used. Abraham would not take to a shoe (naal) and God says through Amos that there are those who do 'take to a shoe (naal)' from the poor. It is after that Amos says 'no' to taking of the spoils that God speaks to Abraham assuring him that "I am thy shield and thy exceeding great reward". The one action and words of Abraham are followed by God's promise to him. Similarly, in Isaiah 33:15 God promises safety, bread and water to the one who despises the gain of oppressions. Are tithe collectors in a safe place or is it the opposite...are they in a dangerous place? Are they in danger of missing the promise of God to be the exceeding great reward to those who say 'no' and who even despise the gain of oppressions? Tithe collectors are fooling themselves and those whom they teach. It is best to go strictly with the teaching of the apostles on giving and refuse the smooth, deceptive promises of the presumptuous. Bring your tithes into the storehouse. Eat the bread of eternal life and you will as the wheat in the parable of the tares, be brought into His storehouse called heaven. This is the quote from the early church fathers: Clement of Alexandria

“Many, truly, are the shoes of the sinful soul, by which it is bound and cramped. For each man is cramped by the cords of his own sins. Accordingly, Abraham swears to the king of Sodom, “I will not take of all that is thine, from a thread to a shoe-latchet.” On account of these being defiled and polluted on the earth, every kind of wrong and selfishness engrosses life. As the Lord reproves Israel by Amos, saying, “For three iniquities of Israel, yea, for four, I will not turn him back; because they have given away the righteous for silver, and the needy for a pair of shoes, which tread upon the dust of the ground.”

This verse in Amos 2:6 and again in Amos 8:6 uses the phrase Abraham used. Abraham would not take to a shoe (naal) and God says through Amos that there are those who do ‘take to a shoe (naal)’ from the poor.

It is after that Amos says ‘no’ to taking of the spoils that God speaks to Abraham assuring him that “I am thy shield and thy exceeding great reward”. The one action and words of Abraham are followed by God’s promise to him. Similarly, in Isaiah 33:15 God promises safety, bread and water to the one who despises the gain of oppressions.

Are tithe collectors in a safe place or is it the opposite…are they in a dangerous place? Are they in danger of missing the promise of God to be the exceeding great reward to those who say ‘no’ and who even despise the gain of oppressions? Tithe collectors are fooling themselves and those whom they teach. It is best to go strictly with the teaching of the apostles on giving and refuse the smooth, deceptive promises of the presumptuous.

Bring your tithes into the storehouse. Eat the bread of eternal life and you will as the wheat in the parable of the tares, be brought into His storehouse called heaven.

]]> By: Stephen Davis http://ceruleansanctum.com/2008/03/banking-on-god-the-tithe-part-2.html#comment-36497 Stephen Davis Thu, 13 Mar 2008 04:31:03 +0000 http://ceruleansanctum.com/2008/03/banking-on-god-the-tithe-part-2.html#comment-36497 Before anyone teaches about tithing using Abraham's interaction with Melchisedek, they should suppliment that knowledge using the three other portions of scriptures talking about that event. First, the prophecy of Jesus priesthood after the order of Melchisedek in the Psalms. Second, the letter to the Hebrews teaching about Christ's priesthood. Third, what is said in the prophets that deal exclusively with what was said at the meeting between Abraham, Melchisedek and the king of Sodom. God speaks to this in the first person. It is as if you found a blog that God wrote himself. You will never hear a monetary tithe teacher, including Kenneth Hagan, quote this verse. There are really two verses in Amos that say pretty much the same think. And wonder of wonders, it has to do with money. This shows either the dishonesty of these teachers or their ignorance. Can you tell me these verses in Amos, Jon? I'll let you write them on this blog so to prove that you at least of the thousands of teachers out there have quoted these verses in word or print. It will do you good. This absolutely proves that God is on top of this situation with the tithing heresy. You have walked into a trap that He set and you can only get out by now speaking the truth and letting the captives go free. I found these verses reading the early church fathers before 300A.D. This is before the era of tithe collecting began. Before anyone teaches about tithing using Abraham’s interaction with Melchisedek, they should suppliment that knowledge using the three other portions of scriptures talking about that event. First, the prophecy of Jesus priesthood after the order of Melchisedek in the Psalms. Second, the letter to the Hebrews teaching about Christ’s priesthood. Third, what is said in the prophets that deal exclusively with what was said at the meeting between Abraham, Melchisedek and the king of Sodom. God speaks to this in the first person. It is as if you found a blog that God wrote himself. You will never hear a monetary tithe teacher, including Kenneth Hagan, quote this verse. There are really two verses in Amos that say pretty much the same think. And wonder of wonders, it has to do with money.

This shows either the dishonesty of these teachers or their ignorance. Can you tell me these verses in Amos, Jon? I’ll let you write them on this blog so to prove that you at least of the thousands of teachers out there have quoted these verses in word or print. It will do you good.

This absolutely proves that God is on top of this situation with the tithing heresy. You have walked into a trap that He set and you can only get out by now speaking the truth and letting the captives go free. I found these verses reading the early church fathers before 300A.D. This is before the era of tithe collecting began.

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