Comments on: When the Devil Seems to Win http://ceruleansanctum.com/2010/07/when-the-devil-seems-to-win.html Looking for the 1st century Church in 21st century America Sun, 12 Feb 2012 12:37:15 +0000 hourly 1 By: Dan Edelenhttp://ceruleansanctum.com/2010/07/when-the-devil-seems-to-win.html#comment-49207 Dan Edelen Wed, 29 Dec 2010 15:14:18 +0000 http://ceruleansanctum.com/?p=2126#comment-49207 A. Cip, I disagree strongly. God is absolutely about this life! To think otherwise is nothing but asceticism cloaked in spiritual trappings. The entirety of the Gospels is one story after another of Jesus/God caring about the day to day lives of people, not just their ultimate destination. Every miracle is linked to the here and now. It's all part of the Kingdom here and now. A. Cip,

I disagree strongly. God is absolutely about this life! To think otherwise is nothing but asceticism cloaked in spiritual trappings. The entirety of the Gospels is one story after another of Jesus/God caring about the day to day lives of people, not just their ultimate destination. Every miracle is linked to the here and now. It’s all part of the Kingdom here and now.

]]> By: A. Ciphttp://ceruleansanctum.com/2010/07/when-the-devil-seems-to-win.html#comment-49188 A. Cip Mon, 27 Dec 2010 19:39:44 +0000 http://ceruleansanctum.com/?p=2126#comment-49188 I know you're trying to help. But this article does more damage than good. Life is life. Stuff happens. To blame a lack of prayer on it seems elementary. I know many praying men and women who have seen their fair share of hardship. That is life. God is never about this life. He's about the afterlife. He'll never aide us here. We need to understand that and take complete and total responsibility for ourselves. I know you’re trying to help. But this article does more damage than good. Life is life. Stuff happens. To blame a lack of prayer on it seems elementary. I know many praying men and women who have seen their fair share of hardship. That is life. God is never about this life. He’s about the afterlife. He’ll never aide us here. We need to understand that and take complete and total responsibility for ourselves.

]]> By: Lorihttp://ceruleansanctum.com/2010/07/when-the-devil-seems-to-win.html#comment-47793 Lori Mon, 02 Aug 2010 03:48:19 +0000 http://ceruleansanctum.com/?p=2126#comment-47793 Dan, I don't mean to minimize personal pain as intense as your own and certainly suicide is a permanent solution that sort of delivers a person from even the potential of growing as a result of pain. I wouldn't even attempt to "prove" my point in light of your experience, nor would I suggest what lessons you "ought" to be learning. Please read that as honest, not smug or condescending. I do believe, though, that the gospel is relentlessly and prodigally hope-filled. I think that I think part of our responsibility as the body of Christ is to remind each other of the hope we have in the valley of the shadow, without minimizing the reality of each others' experience in the moment. The other side of that coin is that we have the responsibility to tell the stories of where hope has triumphed over despair--even in the small ways. For example, I was pretty beaten up as a child by my stepfather, and while I have not learned to see that as a blessing, it has given me a heart to speak for children who are voiceless and an understanding of the lengths children will go to in order to protect their abusers. I pray that as you continue to make peace with the situations you've described over time, they will take a place in your life that leads you to something beautiful (though you could never come to see the situations themselves as beautiful--they are truly among the worst of all things to have to bear in life). Thank you for pushing back on the ideals with real life. I still believe what I originally said about every situation being an opportunity to see redemption, not because it makes sense, but because it is beyond what makes sense. If there is not a peace that transcends all understanding, I could not give myself to being a believer at all in this world that is filled with failure, suffering, disappointment, and evil. I need the promise of more than what is humanly possible. Dan,

I don’t mean to minimize personal pain as intense as your own and certainly suicide is a permanent solution that sort of delivers a person from even the potential of growing as a result of pain. I wouldn’t even attempt to “prove” my point in light of your experience, nor would I suggest what lessons you “ought” to be learning. Please read that as honest, not smug or condescending.

I do believe, though, that the gospel is relentlessly and prodigally hope-filled. I think that I think part of our responsibility as the body of Christ is to remind each other of the hope we have in the valley of the shadow, without minimizing the reality of each others’ experience in the moment. The other side of that coin is that we have the responsibility to tell the stories of where hope has triumphed over despair–even in the small ways. For example, I was pretty beaten up as a child by my stepfather, and while I have not learned to see that as a blessing, it has given me a heart to speak for children who are voiceless and an understanding of the lengths children will go to in order to protect their abusers.

I pray that as you continue to make peace with the situations you’ve described over time, they will take a place in your life that leads you to something beautiful (though you could never come to see the situations themselves as beautiful–they are truly among the worst of all things to have to bear in life).

Thank you for pushing back on the ideals with real life. I still believe what I originally said about every situation being an opportunity to see redemption, not because it makes sense, but because it is beyond what makes sense. If there is not a peace that transcends all understanding, I could not give myself to being a believer at all in this world that is filled with failure, suffering, disappointment, and evil. I need the promise of more than what is humanly possible.

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