Thanks for this post. It means a lot to me.

My son and his new wife are living at an IHOP in our area (as Worship Hosts), and I have been very uncomfortable with the whole thing, and also with the fact that their church rarely goes through the bible. On sundays, they have 2 hours of worship and prophecy, and maybe a 20 minute topical sermon. During the week they are all studying a Rick Joyner book. Where is the bible in any of this???

AND, to top it all off, his mother-in-law is HEAVILY into Theophosticism & Generational Healing and considers herself a counseler (as if she had a Doctorate or something), and goes around doing speaking engagements and counseling to help people find the demon on their backs.

When my grandson was born, there were some complications in the birth and the baby barely just made it through, but is ok (THANKYOU JESUS AMEN). Well the whole time during the labor, Mother-In-Law was right there over-demonizing the whole event and she and her 2 �queens of prophecy� friends were �word of knowledging� this and that and driving the hospital staff crazy. Of course, Mother-In-Law (and all her daughters) had previous difficulty in child bearing and therefore all Mother-In-Law�s children (including our grandson) are all destined to be a �great prophets of God� and that�s why satan was trying so hard to kill the babies, even to inflicting poor Mother-In-Law with a cold to kill her during our grandson�s birth (of course washing her hands before eating and after using the restroom might help). But Mother-In-Law somehow related this to satan trying prevent our grandson from being born (maybe she thought he might catch the cold and die). I was told that two of Mother-In-Law�s babies died at childbirth and one has cerebral palsy due to lack of oxygen at birth (which is sad, and maybe she needed a way to explain this to herself - hence Theophosticism).

I never though that satan had a crystal ball of the future though, so how could he know the baby would be a �great prophet of God�? (LOL).

Recently, Mother-In-Law had just seen “The Incredibles” animated movie, and told us that she was a Spiritual “Super”, and needed to step up and use her “Super” powers to help save the world. She told us our grandson was also a “Super”. Hmmm….I guess the rest of us are just “Normals”.

Anyhow….thanks again for your post. It’s how I found the Cerulean Sanctum.

Well, these “trends” are not only in America. During the years of looking for a good church (ha) I’ve come across more than a few oddities. In one such church all the red flags started going off. No Bible mention, strange French pastors that would circulate the room and slap our foreheads to smite us with “the power of God.” Among other things, they boasted the tooth-fillings being turned to gold and catering to this new-age wave of psychological sermons that do little more than bring up the painful pasts of many, where as Jesus should have given these so-called Christians a clean slate and a new heart. I suppose that what was the the most painful thing to experience was the mis-use of the laying on of hands. The spirit in those rooms was not even a distant 3rd cousin to the Holy Spirit and it was spiritually disturbing to see these young soul’s eyes glaze over as they were “taken”. As a side note, the handful of counselors/leaders of the youth group also made it a weekly practice to lay hands on the doors of the youth’s professors (regardless of the fact that many taught unchristian things and openly scorned God in public) and pray that they guide their children. It was a very sad experience to know that our God, our Father in heaven is being pawned off to such false religions/organizations at the high price of souls.

Dan,

The 7 points are outstanding! Flag No. 6 is especially meaningful as I am about the only one I know who believes so much of Charimaticism is filled with occultism. People just do not understand this point regrettfully. I believe that is because there are so many people in it who came off of drugs (usually the occult spirit is present with these people), as well as those who actually came out of the occult.
And they just have not gotten enough healing and deliverance to be in ministry yet. That is another BIG problem in the Charismatic movement. Any “idiot” can be in ministry. There is little maturing time and process in so many groups and churches.

Well I guess I am going to be the minority voice here. I will be the first to admit that there will be (and no doubt is) excess, distortion and error. After all has that not been true of every move of God? Read your church history if you do not think so, you can start with the First Century church and trace it through history. For that matter what we call �church� today was unknown until the third, yes I said third, century when Constantine became a Christian. Until then they met from house to house. So then can we conclude that we evolved as we moved on down through history. Of course not, as you look at church history you can only see a pattern of truth after truth being lost, and then starting the Luther�s Reformation being restored. We will also see a pattern of those accepting the fresh revelation being persecuted by those who held to the last revelation. Could this be happening now? I hope not!

You have condemned the House of Prayer movement as an attempt to return to an OT practice. Consider this, Jesus was Jewish, Peter, John, Paul, Mark, all of those whose writings have become compiled into what we call the New Testament, with the notable exception of Luke, we Jewish. The books they wrote were, for the most part, written to Jewish believers. Do you not think that perhaps their worship might have had a distinct OT flavor? Of course it did! I have been in traditional churches, I have been (and am) a part of the house church movement. I have participated in Harp and Bowl worship and know it well. They all have their faults, and in fact the same ones can creep in anywhere you go. Things like a controlling spirit, backbiting, deception, envy, apostasy, false doctrine, even oldie but goodies like Gnosticism, you name it, it can and will try to creep into the Body at any opportunity. You can find such error in every move, and in every denomination, it�s not hard. Face it until we stand with our Lord before His throne we will have to deal with this stuff.

I actually see little if any desire to return to OT worship in the House of Prayer movement. Nor do I see any danger of it happening. First of all, we couldn�t if we wanted to, there is no temple. (The Hebrew people face this dilemma to this day.) Secondly, at least the HOP I have been to, are too well founded in the Word. True, they may not spend as much time preaching in the traditional sense, but I have found that in general, the membership spends far more time in the Word than most of the church today. I have also found them to be much closer to the NT admonition to: �Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom, teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.� (Col 3:16 NKJV) Perhaps that is not true everywhere, but it is true in the circles where I roam.

I could go on and on, but I will not. I could make similar arguments with Theophosticism. There is no doubt excess and error, but at the heart there IS truth. Just as the Harp and Bowl worship in the HOP at the core is nothing more than seeking to enter into His presence, seek and pray His will, so to Theophostics is nothing more than allowing the Father to reveal to you the truth about the wounds you have received in life. I would not submit to it with anyone, but then neither will I submit to prayer or the laying on of hands from someone I do not know and trust. Lets all be careful who and what we condemn and seek to properly discern the entire body of Christ in ALL of its expression.

�Therefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, do not cease to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers: that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give to you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him, the eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that you may know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints, and what is the exceeding greatness of His power toward us who believe, according to the working of His mighty power which He worked in Christ when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places, far above all principality and power and might and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in that which is to come. And He put all things under His feet, and gave Him to be head over all things to the church, which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all.� (Eph 1:15-22 NKJV)

Be blessed.

In reviewing what I posted last, I need to make another observation. You stated Dan, that there is no historical antecedent to the Harp and Bowl model of worship. In reality there is a very strong one. If you study the early history of the church, you will see this model in the monastic movement. This is especially true as you study the history of the church in Ireland. There was a very strong move of God there in the days of Patrick, Cuthbert and others. Included in this was H&B, Prayer Furnace, whatever you care to call it at Bangor Bay that lasted for 500 years. In that time period, many thousands of missionaries came from there. If I am remembering my dates correctly (we are in the throes of moving and much of my reference materials are packed away) the argument could be made that they were to a large extent responsible for keeping the flame burning in the dark ages.

Have some missed the mark in their rush to new things? I would bet on it. Have excesses been taken? Of course there are. Are there some way out, totally out of the will of God? You can bet on it. But there are also some who are way out and totally IN the will of God as well. There have always been those who take excesses, charlatans, crooks, and con artists. There have always been those who are unbalanced, who warp and distort things. I challenge you to find a move of God where there were not. Luther had to deal with those who used the reformation as an excuse for violence. The church in the apostolic age had to deal with Gnosticism and all sorts of other errors. It�s part of the human condition. However there have also always been forerunners, those who said and did what others thought crazy, but were hearing clearly from God. Noah, Abraham, Joshua and Caleb, David � we could go on for quite a while. Here in this country there were those who tried to have people involved in the great awakenings committed to institutions. We are all human, it happens.

Let�s not throw the baby out with the bath water. There may be, and probably are some in each of the examples you mention who are out of line with the Word of God. We do need to be discerning, we do need to know the Word, but does everything have to be IN the Word? John ends his gospel with these words: �And there are also many other things that Jesus did, which if they were written one by one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that would be written.� Clearly all that Jesus did is not contained in the Word. The question then is not, is it IN the Word, but is it CONTRARY to the Word. Might I suggest that if it is not something contrary to the Word, then we need to seek God, and be very cautious about coming against it?

Blessings

Kevin

[...] No post on Cerulean Sanctum has generated more hits and links than one of the first I posted two years ago called "Charismatic Churches and the Cult of the New." I would encourage everyone to read that post because a lot of what follows here stems from that entry. What grieves me is that too many ardent Christians looking to bash all modern expressions of the charismata and charismatics love to cite that post as a reason why charismatics have been deceived by the Enemy. That was never my intent, nor is it my intent for this post to continue to add kindling to their arguments. [...]

Wonderful piece.

[...] Charismatic Churches and the Cult of the New These icons link to social bookmarking sites where readers can share and discover new web pages. [...]

[...] the first posts I wrote for Cerulean Sanctum applies to this issue of Christian mysticism. “Charismatic Churches and the Cult of the New” outlines several flags we must always apply when dealing with anything we encounter [...]

[...] Sanctum wrote a wonderful post here that lists several tests he feels are being overlooked in deciding if a practice is biblical. Dan [...]

[...] 2. There’s no fool like a charismatic fool. And I say that as a charismatic. Too many charismatics drink from poisoned wells only to clutch their guts in pain later, asking what went wrong. What went wrong is that no one was bold enough to test the spirits to see if they were from God. Want a wise foundation for that kind of discernment? Start right here. [...]

I’ve read what is an interesting article about “new” things in the charismatic movement. I’ve watched some of the new things come and go but I am a bit disturbed by the labelling that the article seem to hastily attach to the said practices.

The problem and misconceptions that could arise for example from the IHOP movement is that of language and trying to phrase a new language to an experience of God and therefore it is forgiveable if IHOP would turn to texts meaningful to them. Obviously this resonated with a lot of people as the movement is gaining momentum.

Similarity does not mean dependence. Theophostic, IHOP etc. may look like certain things (new age etc.) to some but let us be careful of going into too hasty a judgement. Let us judge the fruits and not discount the “wheat” because of the “tares.” This is God’s world and we need not fear if psychological tools are used by God. We don’t worry about medical doctors ministering “healing” to us, why should we worry about psychological tools used? Of course the operative word here should be “discerningly.” As an aside, False Memory Syndrome is a contentious issue in counselling and psychology but while it does happen, it doesn’t stop secular therapists from delving into memory work at all. Yes, they proceed with caution but they didn’t throw the baby with the bath water.

Nowhere in the Scriptures is God saying that we should have an explicit canonical mandate about forms of worship etc. (see Flag 1). The Living Revelation called Scriptures gives room for the response of fallible–sometimes they stuff it–kind of people. As far as Jesus was concerned the only thing that matters is that authentic worshippers worship in Spirit and in truth i.e. in authenticity and in the freedom of the children of God (they being born from above, see Jn 4). For example, nowhere in Scriptures does the word “Trinity” appear but it is a core belief of Christianity. It was scriptural (in resonance with Scripture) but not biblical i.e. not explicit in Scripture. The language is a response to the Living Revelation.

Being “new” is not bad. Let us remember that however similar it looked like to other things in New Testament Christianity, the Pentecostal and Charismatic Renewal don’t have any strict biblical (if you use the historico-critical method of exegesis) and liturgical basis. But most churches have discerned it and seen it as an authentic move of God. Let’s give the same room to these movements and apply the Gamaliel principle. If we truly believe that the Holy Spirit is acting in our churches and in our world today, let’s take this faith seriously. If the Spirit is in charge of the Church, surely the Spirit would not let it go to decay as long as there are sincere even if misguided people who are seeking him.

Our prejudice could endanger us rending profane the things that are actually holy. Often those who claim “discernment” have a fixed mindset on how God should and could act. Let’s not too hastily sit in judgment and not forget that it surprised people when the Messiah who came was not what they were expecting and his ways were somewhat disconcerting. Let’s see beyond the externals and look at the fruits, look at the hearts. If we really follow biblical discernment the questions that are more important to ask rather than the “flags” given in the article are these:

Is Jesus being glorified in the midst of it? Are most lives changed for the better (”most” because even Jesus didn’t heal everyone eg. man at the beautiful gate whom he passed by daily but it was Peter and John who healed him)? Are people becoming more loving and joyful–infallible signs of the Spirit?

As for IHOP and the tabernacle of David, IHOP does not believe that 24/7 worship is the fulfillment of the Amos prophesy. Here is what their website says:

The Tabernacle of David

WE AFFIRM the Holy Spirit is orchestrating a global worship and prayer movement that will operate in great authority (Luke 18:7–8; Matthew 21:13; Revelation 5:8, 8:3–5, 22:17; Isaiah 62:6–7; Joel 2:12–17 and 32). This prayer movement will operate in the spirit of the Tabernacle of David.

WE DENY the restoration of the tabernacle of David is the same as the end-time prayer movement.

Explanation: In the days of King David, he established a tabernacle that had singers and musicians who ministered to the Lord day and night. Today, the prayer movement is in the spirit of David’s Tabernacle. This means that the prayer movement will have some components of the Tabernacle of David, specifically pertaining to singers and musicians.

The promise of the restoration of the tabernacle of David refers to the governmental restoration of David’s international rule as part of the restoration of national Israel in the Millennial Kingdom.
The context of Amos 9:11–12 is the governmental rule of Jesus over all the nations from Jerusalem.

In Acts 15:13–18, James referred to Amos 9:11 declaring that Gentiles should be accepted into the predominantly Jewish Body of Christ, without needing to convert to Judaism. The apostles understood that in the End Times, God would re-establish the Messianic kingdom over all the nations. God has just visited the Gentiles with salvation at Cornelius’ house (Acts 10). This was in agreement with Old Testament prophecy. James quoted Amos to prove that many Gentiles will be saved in context to the restoration of the Davidic dynastic reign. This restoration will of course include David’s heart for worship and prayer. Though Amos 9:11 is not prophesying primarily about 24/7 intercessory worship, it will be a foundational reality in the release of Jesus’ worldwide rule over the nations. The prophetic word given to Mike Bickle in May 1983 was that “God would release 24 hour-a-day prayer in the spirit of the Tabernacle of David.” In other words, it would involve prophetic singers and musicians. Worship and intercession is not in itself the actual restoration of David’s tabernacle!

Thanks so much for an excellent article. We are making a strong effort in our church to teach young Christians how to “prove all things” and not be accepting of every movement, teaching and fad that comes along. These flags will be good starting point.

[...] see this page for a criticial look from a charismatic blogger.  And while you’re there, look here and here for more wise comment from one charismatic to [...]

Sigh.

After many, many years (25) in both Pentacostal and Charismatic churches, I began to consider the lifestyles of the ordained clergy that I had been associated with overall. To a person, when you peel back the layers of the onion, you find a narcissist uttering so called prophesy out of his or her own heart ultimately for the sake of gain. Watch and wait long enough, revelations of sexual immorality and even outright perversion emerge as what has been done in darkness comes to light. Despite all of the claims of supernatural healing, not ONE miracle on the scale of those Christ performed–where is the quadriplegic who now walks or the amputee who has a new limb? Despite all of the promises of God’s prosperity it is through manipulation of the so-called clergy that the transfer of the meager assets of the many accrue to the benefit of the charismatic cult leader.

“Hirelings and false shepherds” urge congregations to “hold up their checkbooks” and give so that they may be blessed. God becomes a celestial slot machine in a spiritual casino where the music and lights and sound flow in a carnival like atmosphere that smacks of cultic neuro-linguistic programming and peer pressure and manipulation. I once heard a man say, “If a man with money meets a man with experience, the man with experience ends up with the money and the man that had money ends up with an experience.” Jesus had so very much to say about the cares of this world and obsession with money and things that the Charismatic and Pentacostal movements completely ignore.

Sola Scriptura, the Word of God and His wisdom is the principle thing, and man is not to be elevated, nor is he to pull God down to his level, ordering Him about in the “Name of Jesus” as though He were some kind of ecceliastical waiter. The Holy Spirit is our comforter and teacher, not our path to riches and acclaim. As for Satan and his minions, we are not called to fight him, only resist him after putting on the full armor of God. God fights the battle, remember? How self centered can we be? Even the archangel himself did not directly rebuke the enemy but rather called on God to do so.

Demons that we must cast out? More correctly, the heart of man urging him to do that which is satisfying to the flesh, and man excusing his repeated failure to submit to the Holy Spirit and subdue his flesh (by ignoring the old man and making right choices that he knows he should make). Apologies to “Flip Wilson,” but the devil did not make you do it. You WANTED to do it, and you did. Spare me the descriptions of the deliverance session you witnessed, I’ve seen them myself, and what you saw was a person in a highly suggestive state, usually going through emotional or psychological crisis and in need of intervention by a professional, not some idiot fulfilling some personal need of their own by assuming a role they are not qualified to assume. I feel somewhat qualified to offer this observation because years ago I did attend nursing school and practice nursing for about 15 years.

As I continue my rant, I have to ask: What have the Pentecostals and Charismatics have done with the cross of Christ? We are called to die to ourselves and exalt and elevate Jesus and His truth. Most services that I’ve seen over the years have very little to do with the proper exposition of the truth of God, and are focused on emotional, fleshly, and temporal things. Add a little wine and some temple prostitutes (given the level of sexual immorality in the Charismatic movement I’d say they are already there) to the ecstacy of contemporary worship and you have exactly what the Apostles encountered as they passed by pagan temples during their journeys to spread the Gospel.

Do you really think God looks down on the extravagant lifestyle of a wealthy pastor and smiles, especially when that man is surrounded with “armor bearers” to keep the people of God away from him and accountants to count the money? One day, I submit, that man will face God without any of that stuff in his hands, and give an account for the fleecing of the flock.

What we have in the modern church is a business enterprise, not true worship of a risen Savior who warns us that this life is fleeting, and who taught us to gather together for one purpose, that being to “provoke one another unto love and good works,” not to pick the pockets of those who can scarcely afford to do without.

I for one, have awakened and returned to the denomination of my childhood, which is highly accountable to its congregants and follows transparent accounting practices. My local church has a 125 year history of hospitality to strangers, benevolence to the needy, and the proclamation of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. It’s about Him, folks, not about us, AND ultimately, its about those people who need to come to know Him.

What propelled me in that direction was a revelation that the churches I had been part of for years were exactly like a carnival booth I had worked in for several summers as a teenager. It was brightly lit, exciting, and used the lure of large prizes on display to trick unwary passersby into spending their money on a game they could not win. You see, the game was rigged, and there was no way anyone would ever go home with any of the extravagant prizes. Only the owner of the booth profited. He took in much, and gave back little. Most players went away angry, which is why the old man armed me with a blackjack to defend myself against anyone who discovered the truth.

When I realized that I was a pawn in a game that ultimately abused people, I left the charismatic movement. In the end, without fail, men who use their private interpretation of Scripture and what the Holy Spirit is “showing them” end up “thinking more highly of themselves than they ought to” and they ultimately abuse others financially, emotionally, spiritually, and sometimes sexually.

I don’t miss it at all, and I have more peace than I’ve had in 40 years of church fellowship. I only wish that I had not waited so long.

[...] I’ve written in the past about this obsession charismatics have with novelty. If I hear “new move of God” one more time, I’m going to scream. Why? Because that’s marketing hype, not Holy Spirit truth. If God moves in a untouched place on the globe among people who have never heard the name of Jesus, then by all means call that a new move of God. But the manner in which God moves doesn’t change because the means by which He has chosen for us to minister is perfect as is. We are to minister by the Spirit of God according to His Word. That was new once, but that was a long time ago. We should have gotten well acquainted with how that works by now. [...]

[...] I’ve written in the past about this obsession charismatics have with novelty. If I hear “new move of God” one more time, I’m going to scream. Why? Because that’s marketing hype, not Holy Spirit truth. If God moves in a untouched place on the globe among people who have never heard the name of Jesus, then by all means call that a new move of God. But the manner in which God moves doesn’t change because the means by which He has chosen for us to minister is perfect as is. We are to minister by the Spirit of God according to His Word. That was new once, but that was a long time ago. We should have gotten well acquainted with how that works by now. [...]