Strange Fire in Florida?
May 21, 2008
Posted by Dan Edelen in : Charismatic, Christianity in North America, Church Issues, Discernment, Godhead, Godly Character, Heresy, In the News, Jesus Christ, Maturity, Oddities, Revival, Supernaturalism, The Holy Spirit Functions : Trackback,
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And Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron, took either of them his censer, and put fire therein, and put incense thereon, and offered strange fire before the LORD, which he commanded them not. And there went out fire from the LORD, and devoured them, and they died before the LORD. Then Moses said unto Aaron, This is it that the LORD spoke, saying, “I will be sanctified in them that come nigh me, and before all the people I will be glorified.” And Aaron held his peace.
—Leviticus 10:1-3 KJV
A couple weeks ago in church, I was talking with some small group friends when a woman approached us and regaled us with stories of a massive revival going on down in Florida. 
She said it was all over the TV (*cough*, TBN, *cough*). Said hundreds were getting healed. (Okay, good.) Said the gifts were operating powerfully. (Also good.) Said people were coming from all over the world to attend. (Not sure what to think about that, since fads can pull in people, too, but okay.) Said God was giving people gold teeth. (Yikes!)
A few bloggers/writers are discussing this “revival” (here, here, here, and here) and all the typically charismatic hoopla that attends it. The descriptions seem all too familiar.
Me? My hackles are up. I’ve been around enough real manifestations of the Holy Spirit to know that something is odd about this “revival.” I was never a big fan of the so-called Toronto Blessing, had a boatload of reservations about the Brownsville Revival, and now this.
Here’s my take on the revival in Lakeland:
1. All true revival is marked by one overarching, indisputable reality: People are driven to repentance. And not “Me too, me too!” repentance, but the kind that soaks the carpeting in tears of holy remorse for sin. Any revival that is not first and foremost preceded by and given over to repentance is not a Holy Spirit-ordained revival. The number one fruit coming out of any revival will always be fruits of repentance. And those fruits remain. They don’t vanish six months after roadies pack up the revival tent; they last a lifetime. Want to gauge who’s behind this revival? Watch for fruits of repentance. If everything but repentance is visible front and center stage, then it’s not a revival from God.
2. There’s no fool like a charismatic fool. And I say that as a charismatic. Too many charismatics drink from poisoned wells only to clutch their guts in pain later, asking what went wrong. What went wrong is that no one was bold enough to test the spirits to see if they were from God. Want a wise foundation for that kind of discernment? Start right here.
3. Whenever the emphasis gets off Jesus, a revival’s focus is off target. The Holy Spirit always pulls people to Jesus. He doesn’t pull them toward angels, canny preachers, or displays of spiritual gifts. He doesn’t need gold teeth, gold dust, and angel feathers to point people to Jesus. (Those are illusionist and occultist tricks.) He just needs himself because He is sufficient to do the pointing. Real revival isn’t about what you or I want, but what Jesus Christ wants.
4. When the sons of Aaron offered “strange fire” before the Lord, their offering was probably close to what it should have been. After all, they knew the formalities. The problem was that close doesn’t count except in horseshoes and hand grenades. God doesn’t put up with close. His worshipers worship Him in Spirit and in truth. And there’s no “almost” in truth. You want “almost” when it comes to truth? Consider Satan; he’s a master of the almost truth. If we’ve got experienced charismatics at a revival with folded arms and scrunched brows saying, “Well, you know…,” then it’s strange fire.
5. Real revival doesn’t just draw one kind of Christian. It draws everyone. It draws Episcopalians, Lutherans, Reformed, Presbyterian, Nazarene, Brethren, Mennonite, Methodist, Baptist—everyone. And not just Christians, either. Real revival pulls in hundreds of the unsaved and the cultists. Real revival spills out of the cup that first held it. It rains down on whomever is near because God doesn’t discriminate. He’s an equal opportunity anointer of those who wholeheartedly seek Him.
That’s what I have to say about this “revival” in Florida. You can take my comments for what they’re worth.
Why does this crap always happen in Florida?
ConstantSorrow,
In part because of the large immigrant community there. In part because Florida is a vacation and resort destination. People are looking for excitement, and when you go looking for it, you find it (or you manufacture it).
This comment sounds like you are also a racist. HMMM? I question you now more the the outpouring
It is interesting to read the comments of the:Strange Fire artical. If a real revival came that would be poo pooed also. We have been so spoiled in America by Religion We have no ability too discern between the true and the false. The truth is in any true revival there are risks. Why? Because the enemy tries to spoil the real. I am sure there are flakes and fakes in any move of God but that goes with the territory.
I have been watching this Florida revival from the beginning (and I am not a charismatic) and I have to say there are elements that suggest a true move of God.
It was mentioned a true move of God will be true repentance. There has been a great demonstration that in this move of God. Pastors admitting of sin in their lives and repenting. Church members confessing loose living and getting right with God. People coming off the street drawn by the Holy Spirit to be delivered from sin.
I don’t know about the gold teeth and gold dust but I do know the documented raising of the dead cannot be faked. Many miracles that only God can do are being evidenced.
I find many who criticize this revival have issues in there own life that they are unwilling to deal with and mask their own sins by dumping on a revival or move of God that exposes them.
It is time we take any good that is being done and savor it in these last days before the coming of Christ.
Its real convienant to throw scriptures around to try and validate your point. But the Author of “Strange Fire” article is not even sure what strang fire was that the boys gave. any person worth their salt would understand what truely took place their. But they rather just give opinions. We cant have religion and revival, they just dont mix. Satan uses the mouths of “religious” folk to divide Gods kingdom. You can’t put God in your religious box and say this is what revival is because of your previous experiences. God is bigger then your theology. Its no wonder the author is criticle of this revival. He was criticle of the other moves as well. I think he needs to REPENT for having such a judgmental heart. Remember if you attribute the works of God to the works of Satan, then you BLASPHEME against the Holy Ghost. Enough Said.
Greetings from a former Ooze buddy.
Thanks for posting this. I read a similar article in Charisma recently. We attend an Assembly of God, and I worry that this movement will infiltrate our denomination. I am awaiting some formal statement from the denomination soon.
I will definitely recommend this reading to my family members who are dangerously buying into all of this out of fear of writing off something real and “hindering the spirit” and out of hunger for something real.
Thanks again.
LeBelle
A question Dan, can you please explain then form your point of view, what the difference between God’s “signs & wonders” &
“gold teeth, gold dust, and angel feathers…. (Those are illusionist and occultist tricks.)”
Whilst I tend to agree with you on all your other points I wonder if maybe you might have written off something that is foolish to our natural minds…..
Thing is, if you look outside of the US Church box for a moment, God is moving powerfully around the world & within different ‘movements’ & I think we need to be careful not to get cynical & excuse our cynicism by calling it discernment.
I don’t like the term ‘revival’, it implies something is dead & the body of Christ is far from dead, but in the west, it is in desperate need of refreshing & encouragement…..
I 100% agree that if people are not being led to repentance & Christ we have missed the mark, but when Jesus healed the 10 leapers in what we might call a ’spectacle’ only one came back to give thanks to Jesus.
There are always going to be the ‘fruities’ that are attracted to miracles.
I’m blabbering, but here in our little church in rural Australia, we are actually seeing amazing miracles-people being healed of massive heart conditions & growing new bypass arteries, signs -a gold tooth or two & people coming (&returning) to God & a lot of people have been encouraged by the possibility of what God could do if they push into him, & yes some of them (not all) have been watching Florida.
Just a thought…
Amy,
In Job 31:24, we are told not to put our confidence and trust in gold. Simon the Sorcerer attempted to buy the Holy Spirit with gold and was sternly rebuked. God isn’t interested in gold. The real gold is found in being filled with the Spirit and knowing God’s word and handling it correctly.
God doesn’t give signs that point people away from Jesus. Any sign that calls attention to itself and away from Jesus is not a sign from God. Gold teeth, gold dust, and angel feathers do just that.
Where do you come up with this stuff Dan? I have heard Todd himself say that with any outpouring that flesh is apart of it, It dont mean that the miracles are not real. people will be people and some seek the attention of the camera. Unfortuately critics like yourself focus on the negative and not the positive. Looking for the dirt under every carpet and misquoting things and taking them out of context. I bet you are a big Hank Hanagraf fan, and like hime are a heratic hunter. All i know is that there are 6 things the lord hates and the 7th is an abonination. Those who sow discord amongst the brethren. Check your heart because your comments are doing just that. I pray that you dont destroy the wheat as you descide to rip up the tares. Thats not your Job anyway. Stop trying to play the role of the Holy Ghost Jr. -Enough Said
Amy, not to worry you want the razzle dazzle - Australia is on the list, this has been well planned and will be going to 12 planned cities (what IHOP calls prophecy/paid up ministry friends churches really). You all will have your chance to be seduced.. Bentley has bought his way in, knows all the players very well, (you can see him talking about the in house media coverage etc on YouTube to his staff at dinner).
There are videos of him ‘imparting’ his whatever to his associates heading to the UK, NZ and Australia.
This was planned as a viral marketing internet campaign with God TV. It’s working.
How come it’s always gold teeth? The divine dentist would want the best for you wouldn’t he? There are videos exposing the gold dust and the angel feathers (they used to be called dove feathers)
This is not new.
The Tampa Tribune has stories on the buckets of money being carried out to be counted. Stories about ticked off neighbours who have young people laying on their lawns zoned out of their minds. Signs up at the venue telling people not to lay hands on each other etc.
There are verified reports of Bentley’s website removing his angel of prosperity and Emma experiences. (They are back) There are videos of him yelling about dominionism. His own words and behavior can be easily measured up against the bible. That’s a US political/theocratic idea being exported.
Revival is not a term in the bible, I think Dan summed this up for many followers of Jesus Christ with wisdom borne of hard experience.
You miss read my comment Bene D.
I don’t want as you put it “razzle dazzle”. God help us.
Quite frankly this isn’t even about Todd Bently, what I want to know is, what would it take for you (& Dan) to acknowledge a move of God / signs & wonders from God, as opposed to ‘razzle dazzle’.
‘There is more in heaven & earth than dreamed of in our widest philosophies dear Horatio’ (paraphrase ;-))
Wisdom & discernment v’s cynicism & lack of faith, where do you draw the line?
Amy,
My number 1 in the list above will tell you what I think about true moves of God. True moves of God are ALWAYS accompanied by repentance on a massive scale. They are always rooted in the word of God and not in personal anecdotes. They produce lasting fruit that changes nations. They pass the discernment tests. There are no qualms about them from the experienced believers who truly know God.
I have no problems with signs and wonder that are real. I’ve seen real signs and wonders that are indisputably from God. But the nutty stuff that comes out of far too many charismatic “revivals” is not genuine. Its fruit is confusion and too many people are eating it.
there is true repentantace and nations are being changed but you are too busy and blind to see it
Amy,
I owe you a better response than the one I wrote earlier.
This is how I approach these things:
1. Assume the role of the skeptic. Start there. Go in with a “prove it” attitude. Pauld called the Bereans more noble because they didn’t swallow what he said but checked it first to see if it was true. God will prove Himself true always. Satan never will. Better to be skeptical and not swallow the lie at all than to have to down the spiritual “Pepto Bismol” later. Paul didn’t rebuke the Bereans for being skeptical, but lauded them for not taking him at face value by going back to the Scriptures to see if what he said is true.
2. If it’s not in Scripture, it’s not of God. I don’t see gold dust, gold teeth, and angel feathers mentioned in the Scriptures in any way as to proving God’s blessing on people. In fact, the Scriptures point AWAY from such things.
3. There is no such thing as new doctrine. All the doctrine we need is in the Scriptures. Whenever you’ve got people trying to construct new doctrine out of a new revelation, you’ve got the makings of error. In almost every case of error within the charismatic fold, you will have people doing just this. It’s rampant.
4. I would want to see repentance taking precedence over signs and wonders. The greatest sign and wonder possible is for a man or woman dead in sin to be born again. If hundreds of people are genuinely repenting then getting saved AND there are signs and wonders, that helps validate the signs and wonders.
5. Signs and wonders are signs and wonders to the unbeliever primarily because they occur to point the unbeliever to Jesus. Believers should not be captivated by signs and wonders. They are part and parcel of the Kingdom. If believers are captivated, then those signs and wonders are actually working against their supposed purpose.
I would encourage you to also read the link in my post under #2. That has good advice on how to deal with signs and wonders.
Dan. Thank you for your comment. Believe me when I say, I actually agree with you 100%.
This whole thing has provoked some very interesting discussion/consideration/wrestling within our church amongst our pastors/elders/congregation & we have all come to the same place.
What has God called us to in our local area & how do we as a local Church shine our light & run our race in a way that will lead unbelievers to Christ & believers into a deeper relationship with Christ
Seek first the Kingdom of God,Keep your eyes on Christ, go & make disciples, repent for the kingdom of God is near & Jesus is the way, TRUTH & light/life. When you get that right (or as close as humanly possible) the signs come (or not). Acts is a great example of how we should be behaving as a church.
I asked this question, because I have seen the gold teeth & at no time would I say that the couple who received them were in anyway ‘fruity’ or apart of the moves that have been mentioned above, in fact they came out of very traditional Anglican background & are very grounded in the word & faith. This whole family has then gone on to see massive miracles of healing (cancer, heart disease etc.) & repentance within the family at large. Why the teeth, I don’t know, but the fruit is in the family.
Whilst I agree with what you have said about Florida,I guess I don’t want to write off everything right away…
One good thing that has come out of it for us, is the discussion & teaching that has resulted from our leadership bringing correction to some church members who have got carried away by the ‘razzle dazzle’.
I think in any discussion like this, it is important to remember that if God can make a donkey talk, some are going to come to Jesus & repent via ways that we may never comprehend.
I’ve been wondering if you were going to post on this. I live in Fl. and carpool with two gentlemen who are following the event in Lakeland. One of them has actually gone over twice to be a part of it. Honestly, I just cannot buy into the whole ‘mighty move of God’ thing. Something just smells rotten here. I have not seen any tangible change in the person who has been exposed to God’s glory (supposedly) at this event. He is the same as he ever was. Am I wrong to expect to see certain things in order to believe that this is for real?
Whenever I hear the term ’signs and wonders’ I almost always think of the lyrics to ‘Crumbs From Your Table’ by U2: ‘You speak of signs and wonders/well I need something other/I would believe if I was able/but I’m waiting for the crumbs from your table’ People need real, tangible, practical help from the Body of Christ, not smoke and mirrors from from the wizard (ignore that man behind the curtain). Who was it that said: ‘Some people are so poor they can only see God in the form of bread’? My two cents…
DC,
It’s the “here today, gone tomorrow” aspect of so many of these “revivals.” They have no lasting impact. And genuine moves of God don’t work that way. This entire country is what it is because of the First and Second Great Awakenings. Without those, the entire history of our country is changed for the worse.
There are so many red flags on this Lakeland thing that it will rival the upcoming opening ceremonies at the Beijing Olympics.
[...] Fire - a great discussion… I would just like to draw your attention to Dan Edelen’s thoughts on the Lakeland Revival. Yet another excellent, thought provoking response to the goings-on in [...]
Dan, Thanks again for an excellent post. I to have my “red flags” waving on this one to. I believe your post was one that brings some much needed, level headed approach.
While we have to be careful to keep our hearts open to God moving, we also have to be weary of accepting everything that claims to be of God. Not all the glitters is gold! We have to truly test the spirits.
Love your blog, good balanced approach to things relating to churches.
Geoff,
“Level-headed” is a big compliment, let me tell you. I wish more of American Christendom were level-headed!
Taking your comment for what they’re worth, this is what I’m basically seeing
Rick,
Positive or negative? I’m not sure which way you’re going on your comment.
THANK YOU for commenting on this! A few weeks ago when this started… I was excited but after a few days of watching this online and seeing some of the stuff Todd was saying (and NOT saying) I got concerned, my bells went off, and I stopped watching. I was given free airfare to go and had a place to stay, but I just couldn’t go. I want revival more than anyone but this is not sitting well with me at ALL.
I talked to a few friends of mine and we are in agreement. I’m concerned about this angel “Emma” Todd brings up. Number one I’ve NEVER seen a FEMALE angel… and especially one with a name like Emma. Also I”m concerned that Emma is apparently the angel associated with teh start of the Brownsville revival, the offshoot of Toronto, the Kansas City prophets, and eventually IHOP.
I’m concerned in a HUGE way. I don’t see JESUS spoken of here… I don’t see mass calls to repentance. I see people wanting the signs and wonders instead of the one who authors them.
One question I always had… why gold teeth? Wouldn’t he just give them new teeth? I mean, actual teeth? I’ve never seen God heal a leg by giving them a gold leg or a prosthesis. He heals back to the original design. I think we better keep our discernment up. I know one thing… revival involves travail and wailing.
I’m not hearing much wailing right now. Rather an opportunistic cry out for blessing!!!!
AMEN to that statement.Discernment and the leading of the Lord is needed in regards to what is happening in Florida.If it is of the Lord and he wants it to go forth nothing will stop him.I am reminded of a story in scripture and I hope I can tell it correctly.After Jesus had gone back to heaven the disciples continued to move in the power of the Holy Spirit.The religious leaders continued to harass them.One of the religious leaders spoke up and said if it is not of God it will pass like so many others passed who came before them but if it is of God be careful lest you find yourselves fighting against God.Get the picture! The body of Christ needs to be discerning whether this is a true move of God or not.Just beacuse there are signs and wonders it doesn’t mean it is God.Even Jannus and Jambres in Moses time were doin up some pretty funky stuff.DISCERNMENT,DISCERNMENT,DISCERNMENT I can’t say it enough.Test the spirits to see if it is the Lord or not,if we will not do this than we will be open to any kind of deception form the enemy.
“True moves of God are accompanied by repentence”. That is exactly right.. It’s about seeing the dirtiness of our sin in light of the holiness of Christ. When Jesus shows up on the scene it is unmistakable.
Thanks for this post Dan. I was hoping you would adress what is happening there.
Cheryl,
It just grieves me that so many people lack even a basic filter. Every piece of junk goes right through them. It baffles me how this can be.
there is true repntantace their cheryl. nations are being changed. Dont fall into Dans cynicle trap
Dan,
Thanks for the bold treatment of the subject. I think you are correct in focusing on repentance as the telling issue in revival. Has there been a large scale revival that managed to embrace signs and wonders and repentance since the Pentecostal Revival in 1906? What I wonder, in the midst of all these gems, gold, dust and feathers, is why wouldn’t God just heal a decayed tooth by filling it with tooth? The gold just highlights the decay and loss.
slw,
Wow, that’s a great concluding sentence.
Maybe the gold is a needful reminder.
Even Lazarus had to die again.
Amy…..your question asked : (”I wonder if maybe you might have written off something that is foolish to our natural minds….”) is the same one suggested by many others….in defense of corporate, and powerful manifestation. And the fact that many other believers are entering into it, and giving themselves over to it…..will still, never ever in and of itself…..make it any more authentic…..as some thing issuing forth from the throne of God.
The very same reasoning is applied in the very same way by non-believers, to the whole ufo phenomenon and……”they must be more advanced than us-elder brothers from space”……thing. No…the point of my reasoning has nothing to do with ufo’s, etc. But it has much to do with the way many tend to impute a validity to something which on the one hand, is powerfully affecting a corporate body of believers…..something which is drawing many in like a whirlpool…..and on the other, is something which defies the sound and mature scrutiny and application of scripture.
The writers whom you addressed it to, in all probability, have walked with God long enough to know the real differences between the discernment within the spirit (BY the Spirit of God)….and the reasoning done by the conscious mind…..both of which should be operating in healthy measure by the way. In this…..you may be doing their real spiritual maturity something of a disservice.
But this is also not intended as a criticism on your part either……just an encouragement to look even beyond the things which impress themselves on the eyes and ears……and which clamor and compel for our acceptance and authentication. Take care.
Regards,
Ken.
Thanks Ken. No offence taken.
I never intended my query to question Dan’s spiritual maturity. I guess its just that if we can’t ask these type of questions to people in the faith whom we respect opinion, and get a scriptural & level-headed answer, more & more people within the body are going to struggle with making an informed & wise decision for themselves regarding this kind of thing. And it is the responsibility of the ‘mature’ in faith & leaders within the church to bring this kind of direction & teaching. If anything Dan’s response confirmed my own ‘red flags’. My need for a deeper answer comes from the fact that I’m being asked these questions by new Christians, & I need a deeper & more eloquent answer than “I got a red flag waving in my sprit.”
So to all how have responded in wisdom, THANK YOU.
[...] the hoopla over this “revival” in Florida (which I spoke of earlier this week) and the rise of prophetic ministries across this nation, consider what revivalist Leonard Ravenhill [...]
All,
I wanted to recommend a book, Watchman Nee’s The Latent Power of the Soul.
When I first read this book, honestly, I didn’t understand it. I didn’t give it a very good review on Amazon, and that was a mistake; time and again I am finding myself going back to that book to explain a lot of the stuff I see going on with bogus charismata and questionable revivals..
Read that book. It will explain a lot of what is going on (questionably) in Lakeland and elswhere.
A La Carte (5/23)…
Friday May 23, 2008……
[...] prejudice. Oh, and make us look weird in the eyes of the media. If you want a heads up, go see this page for a criticial look from a charismatic blogger. And while you’re there, look here and here [...]
[...] morning I ran across a blog post by a Dan Edelen who seems like a good and well-meaning chap. It was on this Lakeland revival and his concerns with [...]
I’ll tell you what I’d accept as a genuine revival: solid Biblical teaching, and genuine, God-like miracles (miracles that aren’t ‘flash’, but substance - heal a genuine medically verifiable illness, instead of giving someone supposed Gold-teeth), but honestly I could recognize it as a ‘revival’ if merely Biblical preaching were following by people submitting themselves to Christ’s lordship en masse, which is, by far, the greatest miracle I can imagine: raising the dead.
Shannon,
Yep.
Dan
Did you see this one from FL?
http://mondaymorninginsight.co....._the_face/
Chris,
Just awful. How anyone can mistake that for Christianity is beyond me.
That is what the Pharisees said about Jesus. He was so obnoxious to their way of doing things. The problem with Dans critical review is that when their is no evidence of a supernatural revival in our own lives we will find all the abnormal disturbing events that upset our religious world as an excuse for our lack of biblical New Testament Christianity. 99% of what the church is doing today can and is done without the Holy Spirit! We would criticize Jesus if He did the works He performed in his day, today. The move of the Holy Spirit is so rare in the church today it makes us nervous when we can’t control what is happening.
I can appreciate the concern for deception but where is the concern for our own lukewarmness, dryness, and a lack of power of the Holy Spirit in our own lives. Wake up church!!!! Are we concerned that God said he would “spew you out of his mouth because you were neither hot or cold.”
Think about it. If someone comes to most of the church today with a need we send then to some other source to find answers. We have no answer when we are called upon for a supernatural intervention. If someone is sick we look to the medical world for our answers. If they come to us off the street for personal needs we send them to the Salvation Army or search out some social program to meet their needs. What happened to the biblical approach of laying on of hands and healing the sick…. Asking God for miracles so that because of our supernatural act of love the world would know we are His followers
Also, remember that to ‘blaspheme the Holy Spirit’ is to attribute that which is of God to the Devil.
Need I say any more?
Nick
Usher: I think this guy actually believes TB is for real?
Deacon: And why do you have so much confidence TB isn’t
Usher: If it looks like roadkill, smells like roadkill and doesn’t move - it’s roadkill!
Deacon: Are you talking about TB’s looks?
Usher: You’re a little slow Deacon - let me help you out here because your obvious siding with the traditional church blinds you. TB is playing on the naiivety of the ignorant and poor as a magician plays with an audience. He’s just doing it with a “shock-jock” method because the traditional church is so boring and useless, the people fall for it.
Deacon: That’s pretty harsh
Usher: Deak, you can’t deny it’s not true. The church is nothing but a bunch of people making a living off the tithe and service of the laypeople. Nothing more. God’s church is out doing his work. Nick here has it all wrong because he thinks the church should change its ways and help people by “laying on of hands and prayer”. Got news for you, they do and nothing happens which is why people fall for the TB stuff. Nick wants to argue for anything that speaks against the traditional church. Got news for you, they’re both wrong! Now let’s go find some fresh roadkill! mmmmmm.
Dan,
You saw the links from my site! Someone in our congregation (here in Staffordshire, UK) has been going to meetings which I think are the first inroads of this “revival” to the UK. The meetings sounded strange, and I fear that this will become the latest “new thing” to be swallowed hook, line and sinker by many.
Completely off topic, but in regards to your poor struggling computer: have you tried a nice free linux OS?
Like Ubuntu or PCLinuxOS? I was led down that path for the same reason: a struggling computer and no money for an upgrade.
Tim,
I’m stuck between a rock and a hard place.
I have satellite Internet, which I am progressively displeased with (they cut their download speeds and instituted bandwidth throttling), and the system requires a Windows machine to work. They have newer hardware, but it locks me into an extended contract that I’m not interested in.
The local cable company has said they will get back with me on cable hookup, but I never hear back from them. It’s been years and I keep checking. I really do live in a broadband black hole.
What I’d like to do is ditch all the PC junk and go back to being exclusively Mac, especially since Macs will run Windows native for those few apps I would need Windows for.
Then again, Apple has adopted a disturbing tactic of obsoleting their hardware quickly through their OS upgrades. This in conjunction with software manufacturers who do the same means that you buy a Leopard-based system today and two years from now the latest OS won’t run on your not-so-old system and neither will the latest software updates! I despise that kind of practice, especially since Apple was lauded for doing quite the opposite for years.
As for Linux, I don’t need the hassles. Linux, no matter what anyone says, is still an OS for tinkerers. Sure you can do anything with it and its free, but it also takes more than its share of tweaking to get anything to work, and the instructions for doing even the simplest things are convoluted and geared to UNIX gurus. I just want to work. That’s the whole point of Apple. Forget the tinkering and just get the work done.
To the person wondering about gold dust, feathers and gems that show up, the gold dust has always turned out to be plastic party stuff you find at Walmart, the feathers have been tested and belong to geese or ducks, and the gems are man-made fakes. None have ever been tested by an independent party and found to be real. What kind of sign do you think that is? And all 3 have recently been documented on video as being faked by it’s own leading proponents - (1) preacher lady filling her hair with gold flakes was caught on film doing it in secret before going out on stage where she’s shake her head and miraculously see the flakes/dust appear, (2) preacher lady (different from 1) fills her sleeves with feathers and as she walked through the crowd and had them close their eyes and pray, she’d shake a feather out here and another out there, and (3) the gemstone preacher was seen planting fake gems just in this past month or so and he was challenged and admitted it.
Think about what all that adds up to.
David,
Like I said, illusionist tricks.
As an ex-Pentecostal preacher’s son who has spent all of his life [16 out of 17 years] in that movement, I can say, with much tears, that what is happening in Florida is nothing more than a well-advertised example of chasings signs rather than chasing the Word.
Britain is particularly susceptible, since so many of the Toronto Blessing folks discipled a lot of British Charismatics, including the founders of the Alpha course
Douglas,
Yep. And thanks for stopping by and posting.
Amy:
I didn’t mean to misread you.
Dan answers are solid and wise.
“There’s no fool like a charismatic fool.”
This fool is still smiling over that one!
It seems that lately whenever someone discovers that my wife is in a wheelchair they seem obligated to inform me about Lakeland telling me that she can be healed over the internet.. a sad commentary on charismatic fools.. of which I am most foolish.
All,
There’s two very good sites with more information here:
http://www.newchristian.org.uk/lakeland.html
http://www.revivalschool.com/florida.html
I resonate with what is being said here. The links are all very good, especially the testimony page from a woman who attended a previous “revival” conference led by Todd Bentley.
[...] Dan Edelen has written a good, critical look at some of the issues - good comments section. [...]
Dan,
Is this at all similar to what was previous up in the panhandle, the Brownsville Revival? Just wondering. I used to live in the area and same some of the same abuses.
Hayden
[...] signs and wonders and revivals break out. This comes on the heels of two posts I wrote last week (here and here) discussing events at the Lakeland “revival” down in [...]
To the ‘Christians’ who are questioning this revival and casting aspersions on the character of Todd Bentley, I’d like to ask the following question: “who are YOU and what are YOUR fruits?”.
As for me, I’ve been watching the revival on God TV for weeks now and all I see is God’s glory, goodness and power. The fruits of this revival are plain and clear. There have been 13 raisings from the dead, or are you saying that those were also fake? 2 Thessalonians 2:9 -12 refers to COUNTERFEIT miracles, signs and wonders, not real ones. Open your eyes and discern aright - and you too could receive a blessing.
When the Pharisees heard of Lazarus being raised from the dead, you’d think they would have said “lets get our sick and infirm down to Jesus and receive a blessing”. Instead they said “lets kill him”. You are welcome to stay sick, depressed and negative if you like, but you will only have yourselves and your hard hearts to blame.
For those of you who are determined to judge him, I have this to say. God said “touch not my anointed”. Jesus said “you shall know them by their FRUITS”, not “you shall know them by their tatoos”.
Jesus also said that a time will come when He will say the following to people who thought they were doing His will “I never knew you, depart from me you who practice wickedness”.
Soften your hard hearts before it is too late! You are an “unbelieving and perverse generation” indeed.
John CT,
A few comments:
I have no bone to pick with Todd Bentley and I could care less about his piercings and his tattoos. The bone I have to pick is with his theology, which is quite strange and includes communications with odd “angels” whom he claims are guiding this revival. That’s a huge red flag and people ignore it at their peril. A quick Googling of Bentley will show numerous other problems.
The Bereans of Acts were more noble because they searched the Scriptures to see if what Paul said was true. That should be our model. Healthy skepticism until the facts come in. And the facts coming in on this revival are disturbing. The problem with the charismatic movement is that it has abandoned all discernment and is in danger of swallowing doctrines of demons for its lack of wisdom and vigilance.
I would like to see documentation on the 13 people raised from the dead. Just simple documentation. This is not unbelief, but a request to verify the names of the deceased and their death certificates. I would suspect that if 13 documented cases came forward, the news media would be all over those cases. Again, that would seem fairly straightforward and a healthy test of the veracity of this so-called revival.
The Lord warned that great deceivers would arise in the last days. What means do you use to discern the liars from the genuine article?
Please also read my follow-up posts to this one:
http://ceruleansanctum.com/200.....ughts.html
http://ceruleansanctum.com/200.....sense.html
I could not agree more with your comment John. I also am not put off by Todds tattoos although some appear to be a bit suss.
what i do have a problem with is his connections with people who encourage visits to heaven(if that were possible) ie Bob Jones, his regular referances to visitations from angels (of the female gender even!) and his claim to have seen and had a conversation with the Apostle Paul! Aparently Paul is a bit on the podgy side!
If this does not want to make one “test the spirits” i don’t no what will.
Hi Dan
I 100% agree with you wrt to this “revival”. I also know and believe that a true revival is of acknowledgement of sins, repentance and needing God’s forgiveness and His salvation. It’s not based on feelings, hype, experiences, etc.
This