A few days ago, I made some comments about the unease I feel about a certain person running for president. Evidently, I’m not the only one.
A few days ago, I made some comments about the unease I feel about a certain person running for president. Evidently, I’m not the only one.
Dan, I have really appreciated your site and your writings over the past several months that I have been reading, but I think your radar is off on this one. I encountered more than one individual who mentioned the whole “is Bill Clinton the antichrist?” idea during a previous popular Democratic president’s administration and thought their characterization was more a reflection of their politics than reality.
Speaking of radar being off, it cuts both ways – there have definitely been times over the course of the last seven years that I’ve suspected that a certain President from Texas is the antichrist!
Steve, et al.,
I can’t sit here and make statements about who is or who is not the antichrist.
But what I can say is that there is a spiritual power that blinds people. If Revelation plays out with a genuine antichrist figure, that figure is going to be accompanied by a massive deception.
When I see what is going on with Obama, I see a similar process. It may be that this is a forehsadowing of what is to come. Perhaps this is just a trial run for the real deception to come.
Nor can I equate this with previous elections. I’m old enough to remember going back to Nixon, and this mania is not the same as any previous election I can recall. There’s a different quality to it that verges on the spiritual. This is more than just feel good stuff like Reagan’s “America” ad. There’s something deeper here. It’s especially enlightening that even the groups most counted on to vote for Hillary are turning to Obama instead. He’s even drawing support from groups he’s openly repudiated.
Something deeper is going on here and I think it has its roots in the spiritual more than some may believe.
I think Obama epitomizes what people want from America’s self-help, therapeutic culture: a great speechgiver who posits no real solutions. Unlike the average motivational speaker, preacher, therapist, or any other practitioner of pain relief, Obama offers (from what I hear, since I am not following his campaign) nothing except empty platitudes about how people want change. Never mind what change we want or what change he might bring. We want change. Vote for change! After he is elected…and I think he probably will be the next U.S. President…most of his followers will not want to accept the changes he pushes and/or will be disillusioned at how little anything changes in D.C.
Michael,
It’s more than a call for change. The followers are saying that this is destiny, and they’re saying it with a fervor that goes way beyond politics. Obama paints himself as some kind of nexus of all American history, and that’s not just overly proud, but bordering on the deranged.
My dh and I have discussed our concerns that Obama’s campaign could become something of a cult of personality; nevertheless, we both voted for him once and hope to vote for him again.
It’s very easy for any presidential candidate of a super-power to be framed as a Messiah figure. As pointed out above, Obama’s not the first. I’ve seen websites warning that Schwartzenegger will finagle his way to the White House to become the anti-christ. I remember hearing that the letters in Ronald Wilson Reagan’s name came out to 666. And then there’s the current President who says “Thank you” when people say they’re so glad God is in the White House.
It would be refreshing to have someone in the tradition of Lincoln, who responded to the idea that God was on the Union’s side by saying he only hoped HE was on GOD’S side. Frankly, I think Obama is as likely to make a similar statement as anyone currently in the running.
Naomi, et al.,
I’m tired of the parade of meager talents we’ve received for this election cycle. And Obama is the meagerest of them all. This YouTube video says it all (and no, I’m not a Sean Hannity apologist):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzFOOcEQtP0
Again, you’ve got to wonder about this spell he has on people.
The mighty Mark Steyn had an interesting take on the Obama-rama.
Obama is so mesmerizing that after seeing him on 60 Minutes the other night even Ms. Moonbones for a brief moment was considering voting for him.
Oengus,
And they say Steve Jobs has an enormous reality distortion field around him! (I once held the door open for Jobs when I was at Apple. He was coming from the cafeteria and was locked outside the main building (card key) and had his hands full. Good thing for Jobs that I stuck around to help out. Everyone else in the place had scattered like mice when the cat comes out to play.)
Well, while we’ve got people talking about BDS (Bush Derangement Syndrome), we have the perfect counterpart to that disease, Barrack Derangement Syndrome—although the symptoms are 180 degrees in the opposite direction.
Dan
Creepy? Yes, but more than that it is a perfect Scriptural application. 2 Timothy 3:13 “But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived.” After finding out what the man believes, no Bible believing Christian in fellowship with God could vote for him. These people are not Christians. They want to continue Canaanite practices in America, and this alone makes them pretenders to the faith. Any person who claims to be a Christian and is voting for Obama is either woefully ignorant of God’s word, or they are not saved. Either way, they are sinning against God if they vote for him.
Don
Don,
You nailed the $64,000 word, deception. I can’t help but think that a massive deception is going on here, especially when people can’t give any logical reasoning behind why they are so crazy for Obama.
Like I said above, this may not be the final deception, but it sure seems like a practice run at the least. When Obama’s even got the foreign press and other governments overseas swooning at the thought of his becoming president, something in another realm is happening.
And I know you know what I mean! 😉
I am truly on the fence Dan.. I agree with McCain on some “life” issues and I like that he can work across the aisle. I am just not sure about his temperament.. he seems a bit hot-headed (some call him Senator Hothead) and a tad arrogant.. I hope that I am wrong about him. Huck on the other hand seems to be a bit humbler than John.. I may be wrong.. but I am looking for humility in a candidate.
I am hoping to see a humbler president elected this year.. these last 8 years have been tough.. seeing the congress move to the left.. in part because of a president who wouldn’t humble himself and admit his mistakes in waging the war on Iraq.. whenever he speaks he comes across arrogant.. he may be humble but he just doesn’t project it.. again I may be off.. I voted for him twice and regret my support for him.
I am not sure who I will vote for this year but I will be looking for humility as I observe the candidates in the coming months.. not sure that I will find it though.
KB,
I see as much of the “crush one’s enemies” mentality in Obama as I do in McCain. But at least with McCain, we know who his enemies are.
Again, I’m disheartened by the crop of “leaders” we have to choose from once again. Henry Clay, where are you?
Maybe we splintered conservatives are simply getting the candidates we deserve 🙁
If it were simply evangelical Christians voicing concern about this guy, that’d be one thing. But notice how secular people from ALL sides of the spectrum are worriedly sounding the alarm about this candidate who basically came out of nowhere and risen to shocking prominence overnight. The Washington Post just put out a creepy, almost prophetic article yesterday. Here’s a couple quotes from it — notice the religious overtones:
“Obama comes along, and he seems to have the answers. This is the New Testament.”
“Democrats are worried that the Obama spell will break between the time of his nomination and the time of the election, and deny them the White House. My guess is that he can maintain the spell just past Inauguration Day. After which will come the awakening. It will be rude.”
Here’s the whole article — it’s pretty frightening:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/14/AR2008021403105.html?hpid=opinionsbox1
Here’s another article referencing the weird, cult-like faintings that are occuring with ever-increasing regularly now at Obama’s crusades. Some people are drawing eery similiaties between Obama’s charmisma and that of cult leader Jim Jones:
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=56559
Note that even the World Net Daily article (not exactly the most “fair and balanced of sources”) admits that faintings are pretty common at campaign appearances – ALL campaign appearences. Read all the way to the end of the article – they tried to bury this somewhat important fact beneath all the sensationalism, but it’s there.
They have a word for this: political hit piece.
Oh, my. OH, MY. I just read through the “Is Barack Obama the Messiah?” website link you posted. I haven’t read anything that chilling in a long, long time. It seems we may be in for some dark and turbulent times ahead. The scariest part is, did anyone really see this coming? It just snuck up on us, out of nowhere, while most of the Christian world has been in (and sadly, *remains* in) such a deep slumber. We’re rubbing our eyes, in a dazed slumber, mumbling “What is this? What — what’s happening?” No one seems to be prepared.
And with this kind of widespread, almost supernaturally-propelled admiration, who knows what sort of change Obama can bring about? Given this level of extreme, blind enthusiasm, is there any limit to what he can get accomplished? Even the Christians have been asleep at the wheel. No one is manning the post, and a massive iceberg is just ahead…
I’ve wondered why Christians fear the idea of the anti-Christ. If “Barry” Obama is the one who is to come, who soon will not be, then we are facing the coming of Christ. We shouldn’t fight against it, but rather be energized by it, focusing our actions on hurrying the Kingdom.
Read the signs and act accordingly: Trim your wick, fill the tank, and light the night!
David,
It’s simple:
That’s a pretty ominous statement about the end, if you ask me. I see a lot of Christians eager for a painless rapture out of here, but when I read something like that Mark passage I realize that our getting out of here may, in fact, be by some very gruesome means.
I’m sorry, but you folks are seeing what you want to see here. People did the same thing with Bush – the “hook ’em horns” salute which was really the sign of the devil, his conflating the Biblical “city on the hill” with the “light” of American democracy, his statements that God had told him to invade Iraq, and so on.
Listen, you may not agree with Obama’s politics, like his theology (Christian – he’s been a believer for over twenty years, and no, he’s never been a Muslim – see Snopes for details on this urban legend), or get why people are excited about someone who is trying to change the political status quo where we tar and feather those who disagree with us politically.
You may be ignoring the comprehensive policy positions he has laid out in debates, speeches, and on his website (which, by the way, are pretty similar to Hillary’s) and believe there is “no there there.” And you may be buying the Clinton campaign’s desperate media blitz to try to tar him as a “cult leader” who has no right to be the Democratic frontrunner due to his inexperience – and if you don’t believe most or even all of this is coming from the Clinton campaign, you aren’t paying attention.
But you have to step pretty far out on a ledge to buy the “I don’t get why people like him – he must be the antichrist” line of thought which has been expressed here today.
But then again, what do I know? According to one of the previous commenters, I’m going to hell because I believe I am saved by the grace of God through faith in Christ alone, rather than in some works-based religion which states that how I vote determines my ultimate destination.
I voted for Huckabee in the Virginia primary. I do not like him. If McCain wins the Republican nomination, then I will vote for him. I do not like him, either. If I vote my conscience, then I would vote for a third-party candidate, probably from the Constitution Party. America is headed for troubled waters no matter who wins the White House. The candidates running will do nothing serious to fight terrorism, seal the borders, reform immigration laws, reform tax law, and cut entitlement spending.
I believe the end is coming for America. I believe America will end in my lifetime. How will it happen? War? Just a few terrorist-linked, nuclear attacks on key cities would damage Americans’ psyches to the point that our economy would collapse. People would be too afraid to live where they live, go to work, and carry on. Economic collapse? I hear conflicting reports, but the current crisis in home mortgages does not seem to be very widespread. But the small percentages of upheaval have shaken the markets terribly. What if real economic crises happened? Perhaps ultraliberal states will secede from the Union, and a generally left-leaning Congress will let it occur without a fight. Who knows? But I do not think America can continue on like this.
Michael,
If you’ve been following the economic news, as I have, you would see that the sub-prime mortgage fiasco is far more serious than the people in charge are letting on. It’s affecting world markets, too.
Consider this: at several points during this crisis, major European banks were insolvent, if only for a short period of time. This is very serious.
If you’ve followed this crisis, you see the domino effect it’s creating, rippling through our economy in ways that pundits never predicted. Major economists are reluctantly admitting they’re seeing underlying weaknesses form that they never thought possible.
Don’t discount the sub-prime thing. It’s worse than you think.
Steve,
A couple thoughts here:
Hillary was always the main target. If ire as you describe was going to be showered on anyone, it would have been her. No one goes after the second tier candidate. No reason to.
That’s what make the Obama thing worrisome. He was not the front runner until recently, so you would have thought that it would be Hillary under the microscope.
But some have been worried by the Obamamania for a while, even when he was playing catch up. The questions have been flying for a year now, even before he started routinely beating Hillary in the last few primaries.
As for the comment about votes and one’s salvation, I don’t want to tie politics and Christianity together except to say that the fruit of one’s conversion is shown by how one thinks and acts. I cannot ever reconcile being a Christian with giving my vote to someone who actively and aggressively supports the murder of the unborn. There can be no compromise between Christ and Belial.
Some would call me a one issue voter, but I’ll be honest in saying that support for the rights of the unborn to live is a baseline belief from which all candidates must operate. That’s just basic, as I see it. A person who supports the killing of the unborn is—and I’m just going to say it—in league with the demonic. I see no possible way how a Christian can endorse someone so obviously operating out of demonic principles. That’s not legalism, either, but the full comprehension of the truth of heavenly and hellish realities exhibited by someone who fully comprehends and embraces the truth of Christ.
Dan, thank you for that comment about the abortion issue. People always accuse me of being narrow in my litmus test, but murder is murder is murder, and I can’t get past using it as the starting point. IF a candidate follows a Biblical viewpoint on killing the unborn, THEN I’ll look at the other issues. And that, I believe, has to be a bottom line for Christ followers. A person can call himself a Christian all he or she wants, but if Christ’s teachings aren’t his or her bottom line, I will continue to pray for opened eyes and a hearing heart. Fortunately, Christ will be the judge. I only have to discern and vote.
Normandie
Normandie,
I look at it this way: people who think that it is okay to murder the unborn are capable of any atrocity possible. They’ve already crossed the line once. What’s to prevent them from crossing more (and more readily, too)?
Now I am not so naive to think that those who are anti-abortion are incapable of committing atrocities of another type. But I am far less likely to believe they will if they have found the resolve to stand up for the unborn.
Yes, but I feel the same about those who support torture, unjust war, the death penalty, etc. So what am I left with, here? “Pro-life” needs to not stop at birth. I am as terrified of McCain’s flippant jokes (!!!!!) about bombing Iran as I am of Obama-mania.
Dan wrote:
“No one goes after the second tier candidate. No reason to. That’s what make the Obama thing worrisome. He was not the front runner until recently, so you would have thought that it would be Hillary under the microscope.”
Over a year ago (a full year before he was even seriously a contender!) people were speculating as to who this man is — and began throwing around the word “Messiah.” A senior journalist at Slate Magazine, Timothy Noah, said over 13 months ago, back in January 2007:
“Is Barack Obama—junior U.S. senator from Illinois, best-selling author, Harvard Law Review editor, Men’s Vogue cover model, and “exploratory” presidential candidate—the second coming of our Savior and our Redeemer, Prince of Peace and King of Kings, Jesus Christ? His press coverage suggests we can’t dismiss this possibility out of hand.”
He goes on to openly ponder whether Obama is the “Son of God” (?!) and speculate just who this “otherworldly presence in our midst” is. Strange words about a run-of-the-mill politician, don’t you think? I’ve lived through many presidential elections in my lifetime and have never seen this level of extreme verbiage.
Read the rest at:
http://www.slate.com/id/2158578/?nav/navoa/
Let me play along with the conspiracy. Growing up we had all sorts of Christian literature from the USA suggesting that antichrist would emerge from the “communist Soviet Union and the after the fall of that empire, the European Union was briefly touted using a system of numbers. I think this latter theory crumbled when with addition of more countries, the EU exceeded the required number.
My own contention (and the more read the main stream media and blogs, the more I get more convinced about this) is that the “antichrist or maybe the Beast will emerge like all other not so good things (famine, flood, disease, AIDS, corruption and murder) out of a country in Africa. Now I am speaking tongue in cheek as a Ghanaian, but looking at contemporary history, I may not be that far off the mark. Certainly, I have more evidence to support my assertion than the information at the blog you linked to. Moreover Obama, being half African, supports my theory. 😉
It is a completely new thing; this possibility that “the big A will have an American connection or come from the USA. The on-line discernment blogs have been pointing crooked fingers at Rick Warren and his PEACE plan, but now maybe Obama will take the heat off him.
Me, I don’t have a dog in this fight except that in the unlikely event that Obama becomes President, it sends a message, no matter how small, about possibilities in this land of great opportunity- opportunity both to do harm and good. By all means point out that his speeches inspire but lack “substance and say that his proposed policies will not work and why you think they won’t. Even point out his pro-choice stance which is a litmus test for many Christians as at least one comment above says. But speculating that Obama is a dress rehearsal for the “antichrist is taking it too far.
I agree with Steve and I think you are reading too much into this one. The feeling of “unease is, like I said before, just subjective
I enjoy this blog, but taking the conversation in this direction is putting me close to hitting the unsubscribe button.
I’m as much pro-life as anyone, but it’s people (particularly Christians) voting based on one issue that have gotten us the kind of rotten politics and president we have now. What about injustice, poverty and all the other things Christ was very concerned about. I don’t see that coming out of the current president that so many evangelicals still seem to be enamored with. And furthermore, if a person is really pro-life, then a more consistent view on the death penalty and war is really in order, as someone else mentioned before. Jesus didn’t tell us to legislate morality, he told us to make a difference in people’s lives and teach them how to be disciples. Unless American souls and hearts change, abortion isn’t going anywhere and I just simply don’t agree it is as simple as voting on that one issue.
Curtis,
If we could blame Christians for anything, it’s that the Church has done a lousy job in the country in bringing people to true repentance so that no one would ever consider making abortion the law of the land. If you want to blame Christians for that, you might have a point.
On the other hand, our political parties are doing none of us any favors by continuing to trot out lightweights who are unfit for office.
I’ve simply resorted to writing in my candidates. I refuse to vote for these nepotistic and “I’ve put in the time so it’s my turn now!” lightweights running for office anymore.
As for abortion being the lone issue, I’m not a supposed “single issue” voter. I simply refuses to vote for babykillers and the people who support them. Like I said above, that’s baseline. If a candidate ran on a platform of releasing all murderers and sex criminals and giving them vouchers so they could locate into suburban neighborhoods, would you oppose such a candidate? Would that make you a single-issue voter? No. It would simply show that you have a baseline of morality from which you choose who is worthy of office.
No one who supports abortion is worthy of political office.
Too facile? Well, think about this: plenty of people looked the other way in Weimar Germany. That led to Hitler and the mass extermination of Jews in the Holocaust. I simply ask this: how many people out there would raise their hands today and say, “Yes, I would have voted for Hitler”? None. Yet Nazi Germany’s “final solution” is not morally different in God’s eyes than the murder of the unborn. Yet somehow, SOMEHOW, people are willing to look the other way on the abortion issue.
That’s insane hypocrisy as far as I see it.
Putting a supporter of abortion into office is the same thing in America today as it was voting in Hitler and his cronies in Weimar Germany in the 1930s. The same malevolent spirit is lurking behind both.
So yes, we need better candidates to choose from. Are we getting them? No. But in no way does that change the reality that no Christian should EVER vote for a pro-abortion politician. EVER.
As for Obama, a stronger pro-abortion candidate you will not find. Heck, the man (and his wife) continued to argue for the barbaric partial-birth abortion procedure, a procedure that sickens even the run-of-the-mill pro-abortion politicians. That begins and ends the argument on his worthiness for office right there. A man or woman willing to stand up for such a gruesome act of infanticide is capable of every atrocity known to man.
Hey,
The last time I looked in the word, capital punishment was sound doctrine, and it is unsound to equate the putting to death of those worthy of death and putting to death those who are the most innocent. The last time I looked in the word, Jesus did not tell nations to turn the other cheek, he told believers. What do you want the President to do when a bunch of demon possessed anti-christ’s fly planes into the world trade center, turn around and let them have the Sear’s tower? (You do know that Islam is an anti-christ religion don’t you?) Legislate morality? Just because the Bible says we should not kill, my gosh, lets not put people in jail who kill, its legislating morality! Hey, just because the Bible says we should not steal, we should not put people in jail who steal others identity and wipe out their bank accounts and ruin their lives for a good long time, that is legislating morality! And finally, just because the Bible says that child sacrifice brought judgment upon Israel and Judah, we should not stop child sacrifice in America, thats legislating morality! For your information the Bible does say a lot about legislating morality, and it is not what most people think.
God Bless,
Don
Nice sentiments Dan.. unfortunately we conservative evangelicals bear some responsibility for backing and twice electing a (compassionate pro-life) president who singlehandedly gave the congress back to the left and sadly made Democrats electable again.. so in a sense.. we helped make it possible for Obama to be in the place he is in 🙁
KB,
We?
I didn’t vote for Bush in 2000. I voted for a more conservative candidate because I saw Bush for what he is (which is not a true conservative).
So who is this “we” you speak of? 😉
Dan,
I call Godwin’s law. Consider your feed unsubscribed. You lost most of your credibility when you unchurched me, and the rest when you called me morally equivalent to a Nazi sympathizer. This is exactly why the anti-abortion movement is losing in this country.
Despite this, I still consider you my brother and pray God stays with you in your life and ministry.
Steve,
I’m sorry you feel compelled to leave. I don’t discuss abortion on this blog because I have extremely strong opinions. Now that you have seen those opinions, I’m sorry that you don’t like them. I also feel very strongly that abortion is murder and the Bible states as much. That’s what I believe.
I also believe that the Christian Church in the US has not done enough to do more than talk fancy rhetoric on this issue. We do need to adopt more infants and to do the practical acts it takes to do more than talk.
But whatever our failings are, we can’t use them as a prop to either excuse abortion or let others discredit the pro-life cause because of them. Yes, we must do better.
And I also fully realize that 1 in 6 Christian women has had an abortion. Most all of them regret it with a punishing regret that verges on despair. If you are one of those women reading this, I want you to know that God forgives when we repent, no matter how grievous the sin. I pray you can dwell in that forgiveness.
Hey Dan,
I am guessing that you didn’t vote for Gore in 2000 so I am thinking that you wrote someone in.. hmmm.. not a part of the problem.. who’s kidding who?
Splintered Bob
KB,
You said that we conservatives elected the current administration. All I’m saying is that I (a strict conservative) did not vote for the current administration when it was first in the position to be elected. That administration was not my choice (whether in the primaries or the subsequent election) and I did not vote it into power, so I’m not sure how I can be included in the comment you made before this one.
Sadly, we have removed a lot of choice because of how we do our election system today. Back room deals eliminate too many worthy candidates.
There is nothing wrong with write-ins. In fact, that’s part of the way the system was supposed to work. On March 4th, I will be writing in my choice for Congress because of my displeasure with my current rep and the lousy, spineless back room dealings that repudiated a worthy replacement. Label me a malcontent, but at least I can sleep at night knowing that I voted what was right by voting for the very best person possible. I will not let our country fail by constantly holding my nose while I vote, forced to choose between the lesser of two evils. If more people thought and acted that way, I think we’d get better government (and less of it, too).
I’m curious how many pro-life Christians are on the pill, most of which have known abortifacient effects. This is something our Catholic brothers get, so why not evangelicals. I’m just tired of the inconsistency. Don, while you can arguably come up with some sort of death penalty support from scripture, the case in the New Testament is weak and furthermore, if you think the justice system in this country works well enough to support that, more power to you. I’m not willing for one innocent person to die just to support a system where maybe a lot of people “deserve” to die by whatever standards you hold. And keep your right-wing justifications for the Iraq war, I’ve heard them all before. Our government is not doing God’s work on earth the last time I checked, so your anti-Christ religion arguments make no sense to me. Furthermore, this kind of talk comes out of a dispensationalist, pre-millenial theology which I also don’t hold, so the whole argument falls apart. We are fundamentally arguing from different worldviews. If you think that makes me a bad Christian or not a Christian, then I’m glad you aren’t my ultimate judge. And my whole point about legislating morality wasn’t to imply we shouldn’t have moral standards in our laws, but that its people’s hearts that must change or laws don’t matter, a point of subtlety that was apparently lost on you. I’m sorry if this response is harsh, but I’m so weary of Christians who equate what they find most important with what God finds most important.